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#26 none

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 02:48 PM

Note here is what I said in my post:

According to Ms. Reynolds, a WASP, and keeper of the WASP store for years the 1 1/2 inch mini which started this discussion was made for the 1960's reunions. The odds are the Josten 1 1/2 was also made for the reunions.

Ms. Reynolds is also a jeweler and made up wings for her fellow WASP's that lost theirs and other "WASP" jewelry items. For example, if you see a WASP ring, she made it.

Now I have noticed in some of the postings comments made about the clasp being WWII vintage etc. Let me warn all of you I can buy bags and bags of WWII clasps and joints. The companies that make them today are still using the dies and machines from that era. A few years ago I purchased a bag of 1000 clasps and joints that were used in the production of Juarez wings.

#27 usaf70

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:04 AM

Looking at the NASM picture, it does appear that a few of the NASM wings have pinbacks.






The Air & Space Museum has these WASP wings in their display with attributions. Do they have it right? The W-8 wing is from another collection, is attributed, and although it looks like an AMICO wing, it is marked only with an incised sterling mark.



#28 usaf70

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:09 AM

Here is a picture of a few WASP items in my collection.
The Full sized WASP wing was looked at by Mr. J. Duncan Campbell
probably 25 years ago and he felt it was a WWII era wing.
Without being there, who knows.

Wasp_5.jpg

#29 Cobrahistorian

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:11 AM

Not to add more fuel to the fire, but what is everyone's opinion on these? They are Jostens, but pinback...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item518e02d12b

#30 Paul S

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:26 AM

The pinback suggests that the eBay offering is a reunion wing...1964 or later.

Interesting observation about the NASM display...the lozenge wing is also a pinback, so also a reunion wing! I think the others look O.K. as their base wings were pinbacks.

#31 Cobrahistorian

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:28 AM

The pinback suggests that the eBay offering is a reunion wing...1964 or later.

Interesting observation about the NASM display...the lozenge wing is also a pinback, so also a reunion wing! I think the others look O.K. as their base wings were pinbacks.


Cool, thanks Paul!

#32 Paul S

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:18 PM

You know, as I looked more closely at that WASP wing, I'm not so sure it even a reunion wing. At 2-5/8" it's more likely a cast copy of something. I'm not sure what the length of the legitimate reunion wings are, but would think they were likely 3", (or were they 2-3/4"?). This same seller is offering a "Juarez" Flight Surgeon wing that doesn't pass the smell test either--same problem, wrong dimensions. I would be suspect of anything offered by the seller.

Edited by Paul S, 10 November 2009 - 08:20 PM.


#33 pfrost

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:44 AM

You know, as I looked more closely at that WASP wing, I'm not so sure it even a reunion wing. At 2-5/8" it's more likely a cast copy of something. I'm not sure what the length of the legitimate reunion wings are, but would think they were likely 3", (or were they 2-3/4"?). This same seller is offering a "Juarez" Flight Surgeon wing that doesn't pass the smell test either--same problem, wrong dimensions. I would be suspect of anything offered by the seller.


IIRC, the WASP wings are a bit less than 3 inches. I don't recall exactly what the length is, but I have a cast copy (a very good cast copy) of a Josten WASP wing and was able to do a side by side comparison with a good WASP wing and mine was significantly smaller. So figure a good WASP wing is < 3 inches, and a fake cast WASP wing is going to less than that by about 1 or 2/8th of an inch.

Patrick

#34 CliffP

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:11 PM

The Air & Space Museum has these WASP wings in their display with attributions. Do they have it right? The W-8 wing is from another collection, is attributed, and although it looks like an AMICO wing, it is marked only with an incised sterling mark.

Paul,

I hate to but in but that Class W-8 wing badge seen in post #18 looks very suspect. What type of documentation does the current owner have to verify that it is a legitimate badge attributed to an actual WASP?

Real or Fake?

Attached Images

  • Fake_43_W_8.jpg

Edited by CliffP, 11 November 2009 - 05:26 PM.


#35 CliffP

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:08 PM

The first official reunion was held in 1964. I believe your miniature wings were either produced then, or for the 1969 reunion (which was much more well attended & popular). The full-size reunion wings were produced for the 1974 reunion.

Bell (the company who made the miniature WASP reunion wings) . . .


Oops! :blush:

Attached below is a copy of a letter written in 1966 to Ms. Cochran's personal secretary by a Josten representative that will verify it was actually Josten who made the miniature WASP wing badges (charms) for the 1964 reunion . . . not Bell.

Cliff

Attached Images

  • Wasp_letter_1_5.jpg


#36 Paul S

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:56 PM

I hate to but in but that Class W-8 wing badge seen in post #18 looks very suspect. What type of documentation does the current owner have to verify that it is a legitimate badge attributed to an actual WASP?

Real or Fake?


Cliff that W-8 wing was donated to the University of North Texas collection and is attributed to Helen Jane Luts. Beyond that I haven't done any further research. The reverse is marked only "sterling" ... I don't see an AMCIO mark.

Paul

#37 fortworthgal

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:59 PM

Oops! :blush:

Attached below is a copy of a letter written in 1966 to Ms. Cochran's personal secretary by a Josten representative that will verify it was actually Josten who made the miniature WASP wing badges (charms) for the 1964 reunion . . . not Bell.

Cliff


Interesting! Perhaps Bell produced them for the 1969 reunion? Possibility, I suppose.

I too am very curious about that 43-8 wing.

#38 Paul S

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:52 AM

:think: Here is the first of several WASP wing files I've saved from various sources. What do you think?
Real or Fake? #1

Attached Images

  • WASP__1_.jpg

Edited by Paul S, 13 November 2009 - 11:54 AM.


#39 Paul S

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:56 AM

:think: Here is the first of several WASP wing files I've saved from various sources. What do you think?
Real or Fake #2?

Attached Images

  • WASP__2_.jpg


#40 fortworthgal

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:57 AM

:think: Here is the first of several WASP wing files I've saved from various sources. What do you think?
Real or Fake #2?


I would vote that is a 1960s reunion wing.

#41 Paul S

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:58 AM

:think: Here is the first of several WASP wing files I've saved from various sources. What do you think?
Real or Fake #3?

Attached Images

  • WASP__3_.JPG


#42 Paul S

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:59 AM

:think: Here is the first of several WASP wing files I've saved from various sources. What do you think?
Real or Fake #4?

Attached Images

  • WASP__4_.JPG


#43 Paul S

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 12:00 PM

:think: Here is the first of several WASP wing files I've saved from various sources. What do you think?
Real or Fake #5?

Attached Images

  • WASP__5_.JPG


#44 none

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 10:17 AM

#1 JoeW wing
#2 Can't tell
#3 Real
#4 Fake
#5 Need to see back.

Joe W

#45 rustywings

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 10:49 AM

#1. JUNK
#2. JUNK
#3. REAL
#4. JUNK
#5. JUNK

#46 Paul S

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 05:37 AM

#1 why?
#2 eBay $845
#3 eBay $955
#4 eBay $498
#5 museum holding, attributed to a WASP

#47 pfrost

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 09:35 AM

I am not sure that the final ebay price of an item is a good measure of vintage. It is always hard to tell by scans or photos of a wing, of course.

#48 Paul S

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 11:21 AM

I am not sure that the final ebay price of an item is a good measure of vintage. It is always hard to tell by scans or photos of a wing, of course.


No doubt about it, Patrick. My rather fuzzy point is that #2 & #4 are fakes that together have taken in over $1300 from someone for a couple of things of little or no value. I think #3 is O.K., but, for me, not at that price.

Further, as I've noted before, wings collecting is a very immature hobby otherwise the prices would tend to settle within a very narrow band. That's not the case with wings as the prices can go all over the map, depending on who lines up against one another for a particular sale. Remember, there were at least one or maybe two others willing to pay those prices for the fakes who ended up as underbidders. On the other hand an auction is about the purest way to set a price on something at a particular point in time.

#49 flyingfortress

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:02 PM

Not to add more fuel to the fire, but what is everyone's opinion on these? They are Jostens, but pinback...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item518e02d12b



Besides it being a pinback, which is suspect, the wing looks artificially toned, too.

Regards, George

#50 Paul S

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 06:32 AM

Bump.


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