How would ‘Chesty’ handle today’s Corps?

[teufelhunde.ret]

A good question by the writer: "Maybe not, but he would have torn apart al-Qaida and the Taliban looking for him." My bet is he would!

 

By Joe Bush - Staff writer

Posted : Thursday Nov 20, 2008 11:21:36 EST

 

Nothing stays the same forever. In 233 historic years, the Corps has evolved through technological revolutions, societal upheaval and changing attitudes. Nicknames came and went. So did weapons and bases, customs and procedures. Every generation has had an Old Corps vs. New.

Not that it always mattered. “Old breed? New breed?” Chesty Puller famously pondered. “There’s not a damn bit of difference, so long as it’s the Marine breed.”

 

Lt. Gen. Lewis B. “Chesty” Puller needs no introduction to Marines. From Haiti to the South Pacific to the Chosin Reservoir, Puller is the stuff of legend. Most of the time, you can’t go to bed at Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, S.C., or MCRD San Diego, Calif., without sounding off, “Good night, Chesty, wherever you are.”

 

His lore defines for many what it means to be a Marine. Which brings to mind the question: What would Chesty do if he were alive today? How would he tackle the sticky questions that trip up Marines from Afghanistan to Okinawa? So listen up, Marines. We’ve applied Puller logic to the great questions of today.

 

Here’s what Chesty would do. COULD CHESTY FIND OSAMA BIN LADEN?

 

Maybe not, but he would have torn apart al-Qaida and the Taliban looking for him. Chesty was a master at limited warfare and guerrilla tactics, which he displayed in Nicaragua. He conducted patrols deep within the jungle in enemy territory to root out rebel fighters, away from any support, often outmanned and outgunned. Chesty and his platoon of Nicaraguan Guardia slaughtered the Sandinistas and their top leaders, rendering them ineffective. Unfortunately, he never caught the leader, Sandino.

 

“It would take a guy like Puller, thrashing around through the back country, to catch him,” Hoffman said.

 

According to his second Navy Cross citation, Puller was serving as a first lieutenant in the Guardia when his patrol drove deep into isolated and mountainous bandit territory nearly 100 miles from the nearest friendly base camp. His small patrol was ambushed by more than 150 rebels, armed with automatic weapons and various small arms, and well supplied with ammo. Puller lost two men and had four wounded, but the patrol managed to defeat the larger force. “This single victory in jungle country, with no lines of communication and a hundred miles from any supporting force, was largely due to the indomitable courage and persistence of the patrol commander.”

 

WOULD CHESTY PASS THE COMBAT FITNESS TEST? C’mon, really?

 

As one of the greatest combat leaders in the Corps, Chesty stayed in peak physical condition. He didn’t need a test to remind him of why it was important. While under fire from the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, for instance, Puller dashed across railroad tracks to the opposite flank to prepare his men for a coordinated counterattack, then dashed back across to his own lines. The move wasn’t all that different from the CFT’s 880-yard sprint, and it was during this fight that Chesty earned his second Navy Cross.

 

In another display of physical prowess, during the battle for Guadalcanal, Chesty came under enemy fire again. “The colonel fell to the ground, rolled over, and was up on his feet again, like a rubber man,” said a fellow Marine officer. “He kept that up for several minutes: hit the deck, roll. Stand and bellow orders

 

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...hesty_112008w/

[D.A.T.]

I've read several articles on ol' Chesty in ww-2, the man highly impressed me! If he was running for President, I'd surely give him my vote, but I don't think that position would have interested him. Once a Marine, always a Marine!

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents, and I'm an ol' army doggie. :salute:

[USMC_GAU-21]

What is wrong with "todays" Corps?

 

I see you have taken this article form the Marine Corps Times? A lot of us don't read that periodical, as it is not written by Marines for Marines. Its political and thats all. The only thing I looked at in the Marine Corps times was the Paychart and who got promoted. Oh, and the guy with SemperToons was pretty funny.

 

Not sure if you are trying to open a political can of worms here or not. Today's Corps is different. It is technologically improved with the times, yes, but, every Marine is still a riflemen. Last time I checked we all still went to the range and had to qualify with our T.O. weapon. Our Corps Values are as strong as ever. Read the front page of the Marine Corps web site, other blogs, the Gazette website, the Early bird web site, Marines are still doing what Marines do. Taking hills and letting the enemy have the distinct honor of dying for his country.

 

What has changed is the political climate that we find ourselves serving under. Not just President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton...etc. But, in general the "world" political climate in which our young men and women find themselves serving in. The media is everywhere. There are cameras everywhere. The Whitehouse is as close to the battle as it ever has been. I think some of Vietnam veterans can give us better lessons learned then I on the problems with politics in battle.

 

That's the change. Not the men and women who serve their Corps on a daily basis. If Gen Puller was in Afghanistan, and told a platoon of Marines to go kick sweetheart I am 100% positive they would follow orders to the letter.

 

I think the question is could Capital Hill "handle" Chesty Puller? Is he a 2009 USMC General? Could our society as a whole handle his style? Some of us reading this say "Hell yes", but remember we are the few....who have served in a combat zone, we are the few who have walked a post in the middle of the night, flown dangerous missions in helicopters, rescued wounded warriors in the driving rain, blowing sand, dark of night. We get it. We have been there, Army, Navy, Ari Force, Marines, Coast Guard, all of us. So, we "Get It", we idolize heroes like Chesty. but does common America? Sadly, no.

 

Isn't that the real question? Why does the average American not understand the sacrifices of a Chesty Puller? Why does the average teenager in America going to high school not know of the sacrifices our men and women have made on the field of battle? Didn't someone say if we do not know and respect our history we are doomed to repeat it? Why does it take a practical act of congress to allow a recruiter in our schools? Who are those teachers looking down their noses at the men and women in uniform that come to talk and inspire our young people about their life in the military?

 

Our Society is the one who does not understand Gen Puller, not the Active and Retired Marines.

 

233 years our Corps has been alive and proud. Some say just on battles won long ago.....well I say our Marines in this 21st century are serving to write more exciting history and add to the lore of the Corps. They fight with honor and distinction every day they are called upon.

 

I am not sure if you were trying to stir it up....but as a recent retiree, I get fired up when folks say that the Corps has changed, and people like Chesty wouldn't tolerate things like the "New Corps". The Corps re-invents itself every 10, 20 years or so......why? Because we have to, or our airplanes end up in the Air Force, our helicopters with the Navy, and our beloved grunts in the Army. Nothing worng with our sister services, but we need our Corps of Marines, we need their capability, we need their spirit, their honor, their courage, and their commitment to being US Marines.

 

very respectfully,

 

Gy Dan

[shrapneldude]

I am not sure if you were trying to stir it up....but as a recent retiree, I get fired up when folks say that the Corps has changed, and people like Chesty wouldn't tolerate things like the "New Corps". The Corps re-invents itself every 10, 20 years or so......why? Because we have to, or our airplanes end up in the Air Force, our helicopters with the Navy, and our beloved grunts in the Army. Nothing worng with our sister services, but we need our Corps of Marines, we need their capability, we need their spirit, their honor, their courage, and their commitment to being US Marines.

 

very respectfully,

 

Gy Dan

 

VERY well said!!

Semper Fi.

[Bob Hudson]

I think the question is could Capital Hill "handle" Chesty Puller? Is he a 2009 USMC General? Could our society as a whole handle his style?

 

I wonder - no doubt he'd be quite different than some of the powerpoint commandos the Pentagon usually sends to Congress - you know, the ones who are sitting there still tsk, tsking over Gen. Stanley McChrystal's audacity in telling it like it is.

 

I think you can tell a lot about how Puller would play the game in Washington by looking at this photo which hangs on the wall of the 1st Marine Division Association headquarters in downtown Oceanside. This was not someone who felt the need to put on an act to impress others:

 

[shrapneldude]

I wonder - no doubt he'd be quite different than some of the powerpoint commandos the Pentagon usually sends to Congress - you know, the ones who are sitting there stills tsk, tsking over Gen. Stanley McChrystal's audacity in telling it like it is.

 

I think you can tell a lot about how Puller would play the game in Washington by looking at this photo which hangs on the wall of the 1st Marine Division Association headquarters in downtown Oceanside. This was not someone who felt the need to put on act to impress others:

 

 

I wish I had that photo in a wallet size. I'd have carried around with me everywhere I went in the Marine Corps.

For the inspiration...and also because I was told or in the immediate vicinity of someone being told "Get your hands out of your pockets, nasty!" several hundred times in my short marine corps career. (I always wondered why we had pockets if we weren't allowed to use them.) Guess it's just a garrison thing. But by god, if Chesty Puller can do it...

[hmm161-78/82]

I wish I had that photo in a wallet size. I'd have carried around with me everywhere I went in the Marine Corps.

For the inspiration...and also because I was told or in the immediate vicinity of someone being told "Get your hands out of your pockets, nasty!" several hundred times in my short marine corps career. (I always wondered why we had pockets if we weren't allowed to use them.) Guess it's just a garrison thing. But by god, if Chesty Puller can do it...

 

Dan, This whole time I thought it was just us airwingers that were told to get our hands out of our pockets!

Semper Fi!

[USMC_GAU-21]

Semper Fi DAN!

 

I remeber our pockets always being called "army gloves" :w00t:

[CHASEUSA11B]

Semper Fi DAN!

 

I remeber our pockets always being called "army gloves" :w00t:

 

 

Not sure why. In my short Army career we definitly weren't allowed to put our hands in our pockets -just the same as in the Marine Corps.

[shrapneldude]

Not sure why. In my short Army career we definitly weren't allowed to put our hands in our pockets -just the same as in the Marine Corps.

 

I guess it looks "nasty" or unprofessional to have guys walking around with their hands in their pockets. Who knows.

Nearly all the silly little rules and things ended up making sense to me in due time...the waking up early and PTing, firewatch in boot camp, being yelled at and disoriented and still having to function...most of that stuff later served me well on deployment and doing other things in the military...but...being the turb Marine I was, never understood why I couldn't stick my paws in me pockets if I wasn't doing anything else with them...or perhaps that's the problem...Marines and Soldiers should never have idle hands...

[CHASEUSA11B]

I guess it looks "nasty" or unprofessional to have guys walking around with their hands in their pockets. Who knows.

Nearly all the silly little rules and things ended up making sense to me in due time...the waking up early and PTing, firewatch in boot camp, being yelled at and disoriented and still having to function...most of that stuff later served me well on deployment and doing other things in the military...but...being the turb Marine I was, never understood why I couldn't stick my paws in me pockets if I wasn't doing anything else with them...or perhaps that's the problem...Marines and Soldiers should never have idle hands...

 

How about men not being allowed to carry umbrellas while women are, is that military-wide or just in the Army?

[Bob Hudson]

But by god, if Chesty Puller can do it...

 

It's not just the hands in the pocket: can you imagine one of today's Marine generals with that haircut, or going around with a pocket flap open and I believe the collar button is open beneath the tie? There are a couple more pics from this even on the 1st Div Assoc HQ and I seem to recall it was some sort of big social event open to civilians and military so it's not like this is Chesty letting his hair down in quarters at the end of the day.

[oldfireguy]

My dad was an AP in SAC units most of his AF career except for the few years he spent in the Army from 41-47. I remember his pants having the front pockets sewn shut so he could not have put his hands in his pockets if he wanted to. After he retired and became a civilian police officer he did the same thing to his uniform pants.

 

As far as Chesty goes I doubt our PC correct politicians who worry about hurting everyone's feelings would put up with a guy like him. He would have been sacked and retired.

[doyler]

If the ones in charge would have listened to Ollie North a few years ago there wouldnt be a Bin Laden to worry about.

 

RD

[USMC_GAU-21]

AMEN RD!

[USMCRECON]

I wish I had that photo in a wallet size. I'd have carried around with me everywhere I went in the Marine Corps.

For the inspiration...and also because I was told or in the immediate vicinity of someone being told "Get your hands out of your pockets, nasty!" several hundred times in my short marine corps career. (I always wondered why we had pockets if we weren't allowed to use them.) Guess it's just a garrison thing. But by god, if Chesty Puller can do it...

 

When you have 5 Navy Crosses, you can get away with a lot.

[Brig]

I believe Chesty in Korea said something about a Marine with cold hands and empty pockets is a fool....

[USMCRECON]

If the ones in charge would have listened to Ollie North a few years ago there wouldnt be a Bin Laden to worry about.

 

RD

 

I remember the Contra hearings well. I have some mixed feelings about North. He was versed in the terrorist stuff but he was a bit self-serving and show-boatish for my liking.

[Brig]

Met Oliver North breifly when I was in Baghdad. Didn't know much about him at the time

[usmcaviator]

What is wrong with "todays" Corps?

 

I am not sure if you were trying to stir it up....but as a recent retiree, I get fired up when folks say that the Corps has changed, and people like Chesty wouldn't tolerate things like the "New Corps". The Corps re-invents itself every 10, 20 years or so......why? Because we have to, or our airplanes end up in the Air Force, our helicopters with the Navy, and our beloved grunts in the Army. Nothing worng with our sister services, but we need our Corps of Marines, we need their capability, we need their spirit, their honor, their courage, and their commitment to being US Marines.

 

very respectfully,

 

Gy Dan

Very well said, nicely put Dan. I couldnt agree with you more. The Corps is fortunate to have had the forward-thinking adapting, changing, leaders it has had. George Barnett, Ben Fuller, John Lejeune, the Krulak's, Earl Ellis, James Mattis, and James Conway to name a few. If the Corps doesnt constantly re-invent itself it will wither and die. It is important to remember our heritage, and respect it, but "old corps" and "new corps" is BS. The Marine Corps will change..and will continue to change as we fight our current wars and "shape" the future ones, our survival depends on it. As for the pockets, I just discovered mine out here in the Joint arena, I call them my "Air Force mittens". It is just sometimes too stupid to be hard.

 

Mike

[Bluehawk]

If we could have Chesty and "Iron rump" LeMay in charge today, it'd be a shorter war...

[ItemCo16527]

I wonder - no doubt he'd be quite different than some of the powerpoint commandos the Pentagon usually sends to Congress - you know, the ones who are sitting there still tsk, tsking over Gen. Stanley McChrystal's audacity in telling it like it is.

 

I think you can tell a lot about how Puller would play the game in Washington by looking at this photo which hangs on the wall of the 1st Marine Division Association headquarters in downtown Oceanside. This was not someone who felt the need to put on an act to impress others:

 

I hope you don't mind, but I'm saving this photo to my hard drive. I've looked up to, and idolized, Chesty since I was a kid. Here I am at 31 and would still worship the ground his feet walked on. They don't make men like this anymore, and it's a shame because we need them. Not a politician in a uniform who's scared to offend a President or special interest group, but a man who will get the job done... period.

Interesting fact: Chesty and George Patton were cousins. I can't remember how it goes but I think it was Patton's grandfather who would also be Chesty's uncle who fought at Gettysburg, or maybe it was the other way around. I think this was mentioned in the great biography Chesty!. For some reason, it doesn't get mentioned in Patton biographies much, if at all. Now, if only we had a Chesty and a Patton these days... hoo boy

[gunbarrel]

New Marine recruits should wear WWCD bracelets...

[Bob Hudson]

I hope you don't mind, but I'm saving this photo to my hard drive.

 

If you're ever in Southern California, you have to see that photo in person: it's hanging on the wall at the 1st Marine Division Assoc. offices on Pier View Way just off Coast Highway Oceanside, CA: a few blocks west of Interstate 5.

[ItemCo16527]

If the Navy's nice to me, they'll (hopefully) station me down in San Diego at the end of next year when I finish A School. I don't think I'm that lucky though