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Before ballistic gelatin there was...


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#1 tsellati

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 10:32 AM

stacked wooden blocks through which the path of the bullet could be traced. These were probably some of the most interesting displays Becky and I came across during our recent visit to the Springfield Armory Museum.

They are so neat looking (at least to me) that I thought I would share some photographs.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/tsellati/SA%20Museum/Ballisticstesting1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/tsellati/SA%20Museum/Ballisticstesting3.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/tsellati/SA%20Museum/Ballisticstesting2.jpg

What was not immediately obvious (and I may have missed reading the placards) is how these blocks were cross-sectioned to reveal the path of the bullet. Does anyone know how this was done? If so, I am sure many of us are eager to learn.

Tim

#2 ClaptonIsGod

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 12:50 PM

stacked wooden blocks through which the path of the bullet could be traced. These were probably some of the most interesting displays Becky and I came across during our recent visit to the Springfield Armory Museum.

They are so neat looking (at least to me) that I thought I would share some photographs.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/tsellati/SA%20Museum/Ballisticstesting1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/tsellati/SA%20Museum/Ballisticstesting3.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/tsellati/SA%20Museum/Ballisticstesting2.jpg

What was not immediately obvious (and I may have missed reading the placards) is how these blocks were cross-sectioned to reveal the path of the bullet. Does anyone know how this was done? If so, I am sure many of us are eager to learn.

Tim


Probably either it was hinged, somewhat weak seam, or a big special saw.

#3 NebrPatch

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 01:55 PM

I thought this was a quiz; "Before ballistic gellatin there was....?" My answer was going to be "goats".

Tom

#4 Dirteater101

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:19 AM

My answer was going to be "pigs"?

Had an old freind that was an inspecting officer at aberdeen. Claims that depending on the size of the round or whatever contractor they got them from determined whether they used the "saw through" (He said it was just as you would think, giant belt saw) or the hinged type. He said the hinge type would blow open with some of the more powerful ammo..

#5 artu44

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:45 AM

In late 60s I used to buy several US magazines as "Shooting times" "Guns&ammo" "Guns" and so on. I remember soap blocks bored through by handguns bullets to show damages with varmint loads. How many soap blocks for a 30/06 round?

#6 ClaptonIsGod

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 01:23 PM

My answer was going to be "pigs"?

Had an old freind that was an inspecting officer at aberdeen. Claims that depending on the size of the round or whatever contractor they got them from determined whether they used the "saw through" (He said it was just as you would think, giant belt saw) or the hinged type. He said the hinge type would blow open with some of the more powerful ammo..


woohoo I was right. but how would they be able to avoid destroying the blade against the bullet? or was it heavy duty enough to cut the bullet in half?

#7 Dirteater101

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 04:11 AM

woohoo I was right. but how would they be able to avoid destroying the blade against the bullet? or was it heavy duty enough to cut the bullet in half?



Oh, he claims these blades were big demonic looking things. And that they would actually try to bisect the bullet. Claimed it would get better results and readings.

Oh as far as soap, the Chinese still use the soap method. To completely stop a std load 30.06 takes more than the 2 feet used for most ballistic testing....

#8 Alonzo

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 08:46 AM

My answer was going to be "pigs"?

Had an old freind that was an inspecting officer at aberdeen. Claims that depending on the size of the round or whatever contractor they got them from determined whether they used the "saw through" (He said it was just as you would think, giant belt saw) or the hinged type. He said the hinge type would blow open with some of the more powerful ammo..



Did the Lagarde Thompson test use pigs and cadavers for the the bullet tests?
I do recall some mention that the "Broomhandle" Mauser in 7.65MM was the most effective in killing a pig.
Kind of hard to believe.
Cheers

#9 Dirteater101

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 04:20 AM

Did the Lagarde Thompson test use pigs and cadavers for the the bullet tests?
I do recall some mention that the "Broomhandle" Mauser in 7.65MM was the most effective in killing a pig.
Kind of hard to believe.
Cheers


Would have to do some more research to see what "test matter" was used in that test. Pigs being closest to humans were used in a lot of ballistic testing in the early days, followed closely by goats and human cadavers. Makes you wonder what happens when you gave your body to science doesn't it?

Oddly enough until the advent of the .357 registered magnum in the late 30's (fuzzy on this one) the 7.63mauser/ 7.62 torkrev was the most powerful (speed and Foot Lbs.) factory pistol cartridge. It is still a rather deadly round and has no issues making holes into a level 3 police vest at 25 meters. Have heard, never personally tested(way too pricey of an item), that the round will crack the front trauma plate in the modern American soldiers I.B.A.. Scary thoughts about one of the oldest still in use pistol cartridges....

#10 NebrPatch

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 11:04 AM

Here is a quote from "Hatcher's Notebook" concering the time when the Army was considering a .276 cal bullet: "The Army made an extended study of this question, including a series of firings at live animals with .256, .276. and .30 caliber bullets. It was found that the .256 was apparently the worst killer on account of the fact that the bullet had less diameter, hence less gyrostatic stability, and would yaw badly upon impact, and make very lethal wounds".

Also, Gen. Hatcher states these penetration distances for the Cal. 30 M1 ammo at 100 yds:
1/4" Armor - .1"
Gravel- 7"
Brick - 4.3"
Solid Oak - 13.8"
Dry Sand - 6.5"
Moist Sand- 7.3"
Loam- 24.1"
Clay- 24.6"
Loose Earth- 19"
Also, the Ordnance Dept. (and Mythbusters) found that a .30-06 bullet has lost most of its energy after 4 feet of travel in water.
Tom

Edited by NebrPatch, 24 October 2009 - 11:05 AM.


#11 tsellati

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 12:25 PM

It was found that the .256 was apparently the worst killer on account of the fact that the bullet had less diameter, hence less gyrostatic stability, and would yaw badly upon impact, and make very lethal wounds".

Tom


Perhaps I am being dense, but, I am confused by the text I bolded. How or why can the .256 round be considered the worst killer and yet make very lethal wounds?

Tim

#12 NebrPatch

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 12:39 PM

I think by "worst" he meant "most effective" due to the fact that the bullets would go sideways through the target rather than straight through. The next sentence in the paragraph is: "The .276 was found to be about as effective, and as it had certain advantages over the .256, its adoption was decided on for the new semi-automatic rifle that it was hoped would soon be adopted."

Tom


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