Jump to content


Photo

Silver NAP Wings


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#51 rustywings

rustywings

    Forum Subject Advisor

  • FORUM SUBJECT ADVISOR
    • Member ID: 7,548
  • 3,020 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 October 2009 - 09:16 AM

That silver Vanguard-made wing with unique piercing is a nice wing!

#52 graham

graham
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,927
  • 463 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:uk

Posted 25 October 2009 - 03:57 AM

That silver Vanguard-made wing with unique piercing is a nice wing!


As worn by Keith Dennis in ww2 perhaps !!! :think:
Seriously is their any evidence to support the occasional waring of silver USN pilot wings in ww2.

#53 pfrost

pfrost
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,519
  • 4,099 posts

Posted 25 October 2009 - 01:29 PM

It means the wing is kind of "cupped" with the center being kind of higher in than the sides. From the side, the wings almost look like a bow. I'll try to get a picture of what I mean later.


This is what I meant by "vaulted". From the side, you can see that it has a very nice delicate curve to the wing. Other wings tend to be simply flat.

Attached Images

  • vaultedwing.jpg


#54 rustywings

rustywings

    Forum Subject Advisor

  • FORUM SUBJECT ADVISOR
    • Member ID: 7,548
  • 3,020 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 October 2009 - 10:51 AM

As worn by Keith Dennis in ww2 perhaps !!! :think:
Seriously is their any evidence to support the occasional waring of silver USN pilot wings in ww2.



To date, I think the information Rich (RAL) shared in post #25 shows ernest evidence that silver USN aviator wings were indeed worn for a limited time in the late 1920's by at least some Naval Observers. So far we've confirmed that Vanguard, BB&B, and Robbins all produced silver versions of the wing. Has anyone seen a Meyer's, A.E.Co, or Gemsco example? Any images or information you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Russ

#55 pfrost

pfrost
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,519
  • 4,099 posts

Posted 31 October 2009 - 01:18 PM

As worn by Keith Dennis in ww2 perhaps !!! :think:
Seriously is their any evidence to support the occasional waring of silver USN pilot wings in ww2.


Hi Graham,

I ran this question by a few USN officers I know, and the consensus was that if an enlisted man was busted and taken off of flight duty the way Keith Dennis was (assuming that the story is mostly correct), then he faced some pretty serious ramifications. The Navy would not (and still doesn't) have looked lightly at this type of transgression, considering all the time and money they would have spent training aviators, plus the responsibility of flying around an airplane. Furthermore, it would seem almost beyond belief that he would have been further punished by being forced to wear a non-regulation rating (the silver pilot wing). More than likely, they both felt that his flying career in the Navy would have ended, and as such, he would no longer be allowed to were the aviator wings.

However, since we was likely still flying combat missions as a gunner, he would have been allowed to wear the combat air crewmans wings, which are in fact silver colored wings. I suspect that maybe some confusion lies in that overtime the gold USN wings and the silver combat air crewmans wings have become overlapped?

In fact, I once met a B-24 gunner who got busted out of flight school for a similar transgression (flying under a bridge), but who then ended up as a waist gunner in the 8th AAF.

Anyway, this is just my thoughts on this idea.

"I got caught and reported for flying under a bridge in Port Arthur, Texas, and was broken two ranks to corporal. was put back on TFO (tempory flight orders) after 30 days of grounding. I was not allowed to wear the gold pilot wings and instead I wore the silver pilot wing until the end of the war. In combat I was not allowed to fly except for occasional ferrying in rear areas. I flew as a rear seat gunner on combat missions as the wind up of the solomons and marianas campaigns and leyte in the Philipines in October 1944 with VMSB 244, 1st MAW. I was discharged in June 1946 as a S/SGT."

#56 pfrost

pfrost
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,519
  • 4,099 posts

Posted 31 October 2009 - 01:26 PM

My buddy Rustywings (who BTW is not Russ Huff!), mentioned that maybe some other people could post some other wings.

In relation to my previous post, here is a USN aircrew wing that was made into a bracelet. This man flew in the Atlantic. This is one of my favorite wings, because I like to think he actually wore it on his missions. Nice and salty! Still you can see how this wing would have been a real source of pride to the owner. What is interesting to me about this wing is that only 2 or the 3 stars are there. Each star was awarded for a specific type of action, like attacking a ship or engaging in air to air combat. Interestingly, I tend to find these wings with either no stars or with all the holes filled in with stars. Thus, I tend to like the wings with only one or two stars, because, at least in my mind, the wings are more "salty" and likely (in my mind) actually represent something that was worn at the time. Maybe I am being silly, but that is just the way I think about these wings.

The other is a post 1930's USN Observer wing. It is made up of 3 parts, with the wings attached to the center device. It hallmarked H&H. I wonder if this was some sort of early transition wing where they hadn't made the dies up, so were making observer wings out of "bits" from the aviator wings?

The last one is a little one inch observer wing made by Gemsco. Maybe worn on a cap or a sweetheart piece?

Attached Images

  • usn_aircrewbracelet.jpg
  • navy_observer.jpg
  • navy_observer1inch.jpg

Edited by pfrost, 31 October 2009 - 01:31 PM.


#57 graham

graham
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,927
  • 463 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:uk

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:44 AM

Thanks Pfrost, your explanation re; Keith Dennis sounds the most plausable. My full size Vanguard wing must be a sweetheart type piece I suppose. And now you come to mention it, My USN aircrew wings have either 3 stars or none :think:
Thanks, Graham.

#58 KASTAUFFER

KASTAUFFER

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 105
  • 12,249 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:23 AM

Here is a Naval Officer wearing the USN Combat Aircrew Wings. He was a Radar officer attached to the USS Shangris La and flew a number of missions. I have his Bronze Star and Air Medal. In the documentation I have the letter awarding him the wings. The assumption by most people is only EM were awarded this wing.

Notice his ribbon bars are backwards. For those of you who assume a uniform is fake because the ribbons are not in the right order...... take note.

Kurt


brummer2.JPG

Edited by KASTAUFFER, 03 November 2009 - 09:25 AM.


#59 drmessimer

drmessimer
  • Members
    • Member ID: 6,133
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:56 PM

In an earlier post, Patrick remarked that the number of Naval Aviation Observers (NAO) who wore the full size, silver wing must have been very low. He is certainly right, and the question is; how many NAOs were there during the time that the wings were authorized, January 1927 to October 1929? And was the NAO rating authorized only for officers or were qualified enlisted men also eligible?
According to United States Naval Aviation, 1910-1970 (2nd edition) the number of non-pilot officers on aviation duty during that period ranged from 177 to 207. During the same period, the number of officer pilots on duty ranged from 472 to 520 and at the same time the number of enlisted pilots (NAP) went from 108 to 173.
If only non-pilot officers were eligible to be NAOs, then the number of wings issued was very low because only a few of those 177 to 207 officers was in a slot that would qualify him for the rating. However, if enlisted men were also eligible, the number could be higher. From 1920 to 1929, the Navy bought 1,190 non-fighter, combat, aircraft that carried crews of two to six. The breakdown is 815 two-place aircraft, 365 three-place aircraft, and ten six-place aircraft.
From January 1927 to October 1929, the number of combat aircraft on hand ranged from 599 to 664, but approximately 54% of those aircraft were single seat fighters with no room for an observer. That means that from January 1927 to October 1929 there were approximately 275 to 305 multi-seat, combat, aircraft that might have carried an observer (NAO).
Assuming that only officers were eligible to be NAOs, I am guessing that the three-place and six-place aircraft, which comprised approximately 32% of all the multi-place aircraft, were the types that most probably carried an observer, which means that from January 1927 to October 1929 there were approximately 89 to 98 aircraft that might have carried an observer. However, if enlisted men were also eligible for the NAO rating, then the two-place aircraft that comprised 68% of the non-fighter combat inventory might provide an additional 187 NAO slots.
I have asked the Naval History and Heritage Command for a copy of the regulation governing the functions and qualifications for a Naval Aviation Observer, which will aid in more closely estimating the probable number of NAOs for the period 1927-29. In the meantime, these rough figures offer a means to develop an estimate of the number of NAO wings that might have been issued from January 1927 to October 1929. Dwight

#60 B-17Guy

B-17Guy
  • Members
    • Member ID: 12,439
  • 1,139 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Commonwealth of Virginia

Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

I thought I would bump this thread back to the top, as it is one of those great threads
that gets lost in time.
This is an often asked question, and I think it is a great discussion on the subject.

Best, John

#61 hink441

hink441
  • Members
    • Member ID: 10,825
  • 4,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:21 AM

Here is a pair of Meyer silver colored USN wings. I think these are re-striked but still they are an interesting variation. Any opinions on these wings??

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy45/hink_album/SANY0013-1_zpsfe91a073.jpg

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy45/hink_album/SANY0022_zps51a6fd80.jpg

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy45/hink_album/SANY0024-1_zps7d7526f8.jpg

#62 Jay Seay

Jay Seay

    BANNED

  • Banned
    • Member ID: 150,611
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United States

Posted 04 February 2015 - 08:55 PM

Here is another interesting wing. I believe this fellow is from the late 1920's, early 1930's. Just something about it and its construction gives me that feel.

It is finely feathered and rather than gold plated, it seems to be painted.

It is pierced, but lacks the kind of vaulting that other wings, such as BB&B or Robbins, have.

Patrick

Not sure of the date, but this is a beautiful Gemsco wing.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users