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Oneida LTD 1943 M1 bayonet


skohler
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Can anyone fill me in on how common this bayonet is? It is a OL 1943 dated M1 (not cut down from the 16" version). I'm going to take a look at it later and am trying to learn as much as possible.

 

Thanks!

post-5248-1255553558.jpg

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Can anyone fill me in on how common this bayonet is? It is a OL 1943 dated M1 (not cut down from the 16" version). I'm going to take a look at it later and am trying to learn as much as possible.

 

Thanks!

post-5248-1255553609.jpg

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Greg Robinson

I regard the "OL 1943" M1 bayonet....not a "cutdown"....as the scarcest of all the standard production M1 bayonets of WW2. Even the undated "OL" M1's are uncommon.

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Greg Robinson
That is good to know! So I should definitely pick this up ($100)??

 

Best I can tell it's a legit example....markings look good. It's _possible_ it was refinished at some point and I'd suggest looking for signs of this such as pitting under the finish. But, for the money, I say go for it.

 

Greg

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Best I can tell it's a legit example....markings look good. It's _possible_ it was refinished at some point and I'd suggest looking for signs of this such as pitting under the finish. But, for the money, I say go for it.

 

Greg

 

Thanks Greg. I'll try to post some better pics if I get it.

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Like Greg, I cannot state for certain whether it was refinished without handling it, but it looks good from the photos. But even if it has been, it will not affect the value greatly as it looks good enough to be a military refinish and in my experience that does not greatly hurt the value when well done (little to no pitting under the finish, no nicks on the blade, marks not blurred, etc.).

 

I agree with Greg, this is probably the rarest single M1 bayonet there is (unless there is an AFH dated M1 which I have never seen).

 

Recently a 1943 PAL M1 sold on eBay for slightly over $200, Condition was probably slightly better, but PAL is also somewhat more common than the OL.

 

Personal opinion, if you don't want it at $100, I will be happy to take it.

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OCL made the least of the M1's.they are getting harder to find in any condition by the day.I live right where they were made and have turned down the $100.00 one's.No more.Grab it,you won't be seeing many more available.Pony.

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Greg Robinson
OCL made the least of the M1's.they are getting harder to find in any condition by the day.I live right where they were made and have turned down the $100.00 one's.No more.Grab it,you won't be seeing many more available.Pony.

 

It was over ten years ago that a collector I knew was going through a divorce and having to liquidate his collection. One of the pieces he offered me was a virtually mint "OL1943" M1. At $175 it was what I regarded as "high retail" for the time period but I knew then I might never again see another that nice for sale.....so I bought it.....and have no regrets.

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It was over ten years ago that a collector I knew was going through a divorce and having to liquidate his collection. One of the pieces he offered me was a virtually mint "OL1943" M1. At $175 it was what I regarded as "high retail" for the time period but I knew then I might never again see another that nice for sale.....so I bought it.....and have no regrets.

 

 

Just picked it up and ran some oil over it. It was very, very dry. I'll take some pictures later but basically it is an M1 OL 1943. The blade is beautiful with some of the finish missing where the scabbard rubs on it. The blade itself has a slight edge, not sharp and does not look like any excess metal was removed if it was shapened. The finish goes down over edge, so finished (or refinished) after any sharpening. No nicks or dings anywhere. Grips are very nice with just a few scratches.

 

Scabbard has the flaming bomb, VP22 (or 24- can't remember) stamped on the back of the green part. Is in overall excellent shape with no scratches or chips out of it.

 

Overall I'm very happy with it. doesn't really look like it was ever used.

 

Steve

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Any thoughts good or bad? Does this look like the real deal or does something look wrong? There is a small wave of metal inside the groove on one side that had me curious. Looks more like a flaw in the manufacture than anything. There is a small area where the finish is a little funny, not sure if a chemical did this or just a glitch in the process.

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Any thoughts good or bad? Does this look like the real deal or does something look wrong? There is a small wave of metal inside the groove on one side that had me curious. Looks more like a flaw in the manufacture than anything. There is a small area where the finish is a little funny, not sure if a chemical did this or just a glitch in the process.

 

Looks fine to me. It must be kept in mind that M1905 and M1 bayonet production in WW2 was undertaken by companies that had never made them before. The great need for bayonets led to instructions to the inspectors that cosmetic flaws that did not affect serviceability were to be overlooked. The need was for quantity, not quality. Many have far more problems than the one shown. Color differences in the finish are also common due either to impurities in the Parkerizing solutions or heat treatment of the blade.

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Looks good to me. I've been told that the OL bayonets are rather rare... I have a PAL MOD Oneida M1905E1 (cut down). If you can grab at $100 I would. Thats a beautiful example.

 

Wayne

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Huh..I must disagree with you guys...I believe "WT" for Wilder Tool is the rarest maker of them all and "OL" is number 2 on the scarce list. I have 2 of each, both cut and uncut and both are dated 1943, plus a cut and uncut 1943 dated PAL,UC,AFH.

 

I should have looked closer...your bayonet is the very first one I have seen with a 1943 date that was made after the change over from 15" blades to 10" ones that were not cut down from 15" blades...I do know there is a ton of repros from India flooding the market. I just took the grips off both my "OL's" and found that both have "OL" stamped inside as well...not so sure this has been done on repros, but original ones have it..take a look at the long bar/rod that is part of the release mech. and see if "OL" is stamped inside.

 

I have had these bayonets for well over 20 years and the 15" WT my father gave it to me when we lived in England back in mid 1960's..it was my 1st bayonet, but mom did not let "play" with it untill I turned 16...It just sat in a wood rack dad made me and collected dust for a number of years, along with 2 German bayonets.

 

 

1A291E

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I did take the grips off and there is an OL stamped on the hilt or guard. The grips are stamped with and AB and a digit inside of a circle. I'm pretty sure this one is not a repro.

 

If I understand it correctly, the thing that make this uncommon is that it is a dated m1, from a company that did not make a lot of them. Not sure what the actual number is though.

 

Steve

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I saw that they were making repros of M1 bayonets and were being sold by retailers like Cheaper Than Dirt. I saw a 10" M1 bayonet being offered in their recent catalogue, but I dont know what makers name is on the bayonet. I know that Utica Cutlery has been repro already, but I am not sure if the other makers have been reproduced to. Does anyone know if OL's are being reproduced yet?

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Greg Robinson
I saw that they were making repros of M1 bayonets and were being sold by retailers like Cheaper Than Dirt. I saw a 10" M1 bayonet being offered in their recent catalogue, but I dont know what makers name is on the bayonet. I know that Utica Cutlery has been repro already, but I am not sure if the other makers have been reproduced to. Does anyone know if OL's are being reproduced yet?

 

I've seen photos of a fake OL M1905 so it wouldn't surprise me to learn that fake "OL1943" M1's are out there. The good news, so far, is most can be spotted if you're knowledgeable and careful.

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To address a few of the questions or remarks that have been made so far:

 

1. In my opinion, the 1943 dated Oneida M1 bayonet is the scarcest standard marking. Yes, Wilde Tool made fewer bayonets than the others, but I am commenting on markings, not overall production.

 

2. The bayonet catch is not commonly marked OL. At some time, prior to the M1 being adopted, the decision was made to allow Utica Cutlery to make sufficient catches for all the makers. Most M1 bayonets will have catches marked UC rather than the particular maker.

 

3. There are M1905, M1905E1 and M1 bayonets currently being reproduced with the OL and OL 1943 mark. The earlier repros have the famous 5 lugged gear mark on the right ricasso, the new ones apparently do not but the only one I have handled is marked S.W.I. 1943 which of course does not copy an original maker (SWI is Schreck Wholesale Inc which had M1943 machetes made for them by Ontario). So these will be easy to identify. The ones I have seen are painted black, again makes them east to tell. Potential purchasers do need to do their homework.

 

I have shown some of the earlier reproductions in Bayonet Points 13 and 30:

 

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_13.htm

 

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_30.htm

 

Collectors of the WW2 M1905 and M1 bayonets would probably find these helpful;

 

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_23.htm

 

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_24.htm

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Is it possible to have a uncut 10" OL bayonet dated 1942?

 

No. The design was not approved until 1943 and the tests were done with shortened blades, not new made 10 inch blades.

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Here is a pic of the catch with the OL stamp. So, would this likely be an early production M1 even with regard to the OL dated bayonets?? Would this likely make it a little more uncommon?

 

Thanks!

Steve

post-5248-1257008786.jpg

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