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Armor Triangles: Real vs. Made For Collectors


tredhed2
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It is a German-made patch for the 68th Armored Regiment ca. 1955. I won't speculate as to how it came w/ the 68th AIB hx.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There isn't real one among any that I can see (even the common, readily avail REAL examples have been made for collectors in this grouping):

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another current bad one. Especially obvious on the back - you can see how high the emb #s are and some paper stabilizer stuck at the top of the "6".

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  • 1 month later...

Not every patch sold by this dealer is made for collectors; not every armor patch sold by this dealer is made for collectors, but these all are (looks like someone is trying awfully hard NOT to use the characteristics mentioned in this pinned thread or throughout the Forum:

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I don't want to call this one "made for collectors" yet. There is a 774th sent to me recently made in the same style (seller said made in France, clearly an error on his part). Both the 736th and 774th served only in the ETO. It is possible that numbers were added in Japan, like for this 736th, and the 774th, for veterans who remained in the service well after WW II. For two of these to show up simutaneously makes me suspicious. If more units show up in this style, perhaps we can move the thread to the pinned section.

 

The photos are not the best.

 

Here is the reply of the seller regarding this 736th......"It's possible these were added, but if so, it's a nice job - not like some I've seen. Looks like part of the patch, - snow blends in nicely, etc. I'm no expert on these, but this is a nice one. There is no "mesh" as with some,and no glow"......

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vostoktrading

Hi,

Looks added to me. Notice the "pulled in" look to the edges on either side of the numbers. I know of one dealer back in the '80's who had lots of blank armor patches and had numbers added. I don't think it needs to be from Japan, it could be done just about anywhere. It is a nicer job than usual.

Just my opinion.

Jon.

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You are correct about the pinching at the sides, which is one of the characteristics of a patch made for collectors. This could also have been done in Korea, which would be a novelty, and more recently than the KW.

 

U R thinking of the late Jack Britton, outta Tulsa, OK.

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Okay, here is the other recent offering. With both of these appearing at the same time, and readers being reminded that when you a see numbers of armor triangles appearing that are made in the same style (Under the pinned thread - Armor Triangles: Real vs. Made for Collectors - look at posts 23-26, and 29), I dislike this 774th and the previous 736th even less. Look at the style of the 7s, the white pick up bobbin on the back, and the pinching. The base armor force triangles are good FWIT. Sorry for the small size, but they are what were sent to me.

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Even though the pix are not the best, you can tell that the #s were added by hand guided sewing machine, and on the back, you can see the newspaper between the #s.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here are some more. Sellers who take crappy photos make me even more suspicious.....on the back, notice the high thick #s w/ white pick up bobbin. BTW - there was a 208th Tank Bn, but the triangle they wore looks nothing like this.

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You can easily tell the different sizes and angling of the #s on the front; on the back, see post #51 plus you can still see newspaper.

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This 274th looks nothing like the real deal. This is what happens when whomever the someone is who made this initially did not know for certain what the patch looked like, but guessed because of ALL the others he made. In addition to not knowing what an original patch looks like, on the front, the #s are angled, and on the back, well, the gauze speaks for itself.

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The 302nd Tank Bn was organized in 1921, redesignated in the late 1920s as 1st Bn, 311th Tank Regt, would not have worn an armor patch like this, and the 302nd FA was always FA, not AFA, so this is a fantasy armor patch, made for collectors ONLY. This is one of the reasons to own research books - I may not always be here, nor will others w/ the same knowledge and your reference library will. The #s look bad on the front, and on the back, you would have to be drunk to think this was the way patches were made by skilled tailors/seamstresses. The gauze and snarled thread on the 3 crack me up. The last thing to add is in this series of patches made for collectors, note that all the # 2s are made the same way........

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Okay, when I awoke this AM I said &%^$#@!....there was a 302nd Armored Cav Gp, but it existed for only a short period of time (1948-50) and only with a HQ Trp (then redes HQ Co) and a 1st Bn. So this is reflective of what was probably only a cadre for the 302nd Amd Cav Gp.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Look at these two - good thing we can see the backs. On the 42nd, it was a 12th AD that someone added the "leg and angle" to the 1; on the 45th, it was a 4x, and the x was taken out and the 5 added. Sheesh!

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  • 2 months later...
wartimecollectables.com

Both shown examples are reproductions with the HQ & GHQ added for collectors. These were probably done in the 1970's and use cotton thread. Note the added letters cause the edges of the patch at 3 and 9 by the lettering to pinch in some.

The HQ Armor patch is purely fantasy and was never authorized or manufactured during WWII.

The GHQ Armor patch was never authorized or apparently worn during WWII however there are period examples manufactured in the mistaken belief that the patch would be worn.

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  • 4 weeks later...

These are some more that are made for collectors. Note that they are ALL made exactly the same way. What are the chances that these units would choose the same manufacturer? There are many more out there like these.

 

Here are a few more from my collection. Time to clean up the Armor triangles now, oboy i guess im in for surprise there of how manys not originals. This forum is a great place to learn and ofcourse im an ASMIC member where there is also a ton of information.

 

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  • 1 month later...
Was there a real patch for the 15th armored since it was a ghost division?

 

 

Absolutely. The patches were made by manufacturers under their assumption that the unit was going to be activated. It was easy to continue production by simply changing numbers, so they went ahead and made the patches.

 

-Ski

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  • 1 year later...
This is made for collectors, too. Same as in posts 28, 30, and 32.

 

Not sure I would automatically label these as made for collectors. I have an original 3/68 Armor patch on a fatigue shirt that I got directly from the vet who served as a Platoon Leader in Germany in the early 1960's. The 3/68 is on the sloppy side of squared-away as well. The patch is worn over the US ARMY in coveralls style, with the 8th ID patch on the left sleeve. It looks to me like its a US-made patch that has the 3/68 added to it locally. I don't have this jacket with me (in storage), but the next time I get to it, I will post it on this thread.

It's much cheaper in a unit to get the stock number for 100 blank armor patches, order them, and have a local with a sew shop make them up then to pay to have the whole thing made. Unfortunately for us, it also means that fakes are harder to spot.

 

I'll try to upload pictures of some Armor School insignia variations I've got with me.

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Armor School at Ft. Knox.

WWII: "S" triangle was worn by school personnel. "DR" triangle was worn by the Demonstration Regiment at Knox.

Late 1940's - Korea: 3rd Armored Division was the training unit of the Armored School. The "S" patch was still worn by "paper pushers at HQ down on main post", but the folks running ranges and training were 3rd Armor until Just after Korea. This came directly from my grandfather who was cadre in 3rd Armored Div (Training).

Post Korea - to the moving of the school from Ft. Knox. Here are the "tab" variations (none of these were bought from collectors, and all came from the area around Ft Knox when I lived there)

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Second set are some random ones (L to R):

1. 11th AD patch I always assumed was real. It came from a museum gift shop when I was a kid in the late 1980's. It may be a real, un-issued 11th, or maybe I don't like it because it's too clean.

2. 14th AD Patch I threw in for a baseline, this one is salty and was sewn to a uniform for quite some time. No doubts on it.

3. 2nd AD patch. It has a crappy edge from a manufacturing defect on it (right side). Might be seen as a fake. I actually took it off of an Elvis-era fatigue shirt I found at the Goodwill. (shirt was missing other patches but the heavy starch showed it had been on there a long time).

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  • 5 months later...

As promised here is an original 2/68 armor patch on a shirt I got directly from the vet. This is Circa 1964.

 

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Also as a note, I am good friends with the historian for the 754th Tank Bn from WWII, he is also a Silver Star recipient from Co A, 754th. He stated that he never saw a factory-made 754th patch during the war. The two examples he still has were both blank armor patches with "754" added by a hand powered sewing machine while in the Philippines. A soldier with tailoring experience did the custom work for whoever wanted one made....not to say a factory-made 754th didn't exist, but don't automatically discount one with an added number as a fake.

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