

M C Lilley Sword
#1
Posted 28 September 2009 - 03:14 PM
I am not sure who told them this or if it is correct. Here are some pictures of the sword. Any help would be appreciated.
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24001.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24003.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24005.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24013.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24010.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24014.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24015.jpg
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/1raredeal/sept24016.jpg
Thanks for looking.
#2
Posted 28 September 2009 - 03:54 PM
These became regulation for all officers other than Cavalry and mounted Artillery in 1872, and were replaced by the M1902 saber in, well, 1902.
Yours has a nice etching job and looks to have nearly all of the gilding intact. Nice find.
I think the inscription is "5th Regiment ONG" and not "OHG", which would mean the sword was presented to the Adjutant of the 5th Regiment, Ohio National Guard. They seem to have had a few troubles by 1897:
http://query.nytimes...9649C94669ED7CF
But they were still extant when WWI rolled around, so they apparently came out OK:
http://ech.cwru.edu/...le.pl?id=FONGR1
Edited by Varangian, 28 September 2009 - 04:17 PM.
#3
Posted 28 September 2009 - 05:50 PM
#4
Posted 29 September 2009 - 04:16 AM
This walking bear looking logo has always been problematic for me to decypher. It either represents Abraham Kuller (walking bear) or Lauterjung & Co. (walking tiger).
I've also spent some fruitless hours trying to find a definitive answer. As much literature and documentation as there is for swords from Solingen, this seems to be a wee blind spot.
I'd be grateful for any reference you have for it....
#5
Posted 29 September 2009 - 03:52 PM
What mark on the sword is for the "5th ONG"? Is it on the blade or handle?
Also I was wondering what the talk about Lauterjung and Kuller is about. It has me a little confused. Did M. C. Lilley purchase the parts of the sword from other companies. If so, I assume you are saying one of those companies made the blade.
One last thing, would you guys recommend cleaning the sword at all? I have always left any knives or swords I sell in "as found condition" to not destroy the patina, however I have never asked anyone if that is the right way to sell blades.
Thank you both for all your help.
#6
Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:10 PM
What mark on the sword is for the "5th ONG"? Is it on the blade or handle?
I thought the link you provided was to the auction for your sword...forget all the stuff about the 5th ONG.
Also I was wondering what the talk about Lauterjung and Kuller is about. It has me a little confused. Did M. C. Lilley purchase the parts of the sword from other companies. If so, I assume you are saying one of those companies made the blade.
M.C. Lilley, and most other cutlers and sellers of militaria, imported their blades and sometimes entire swords. M.C. Lilley might have imported this sword entire, or imported just the blade from a Solingen firm and made or contracted the furniture. The only sure way to tell would be a review of company records of the period, if they are even extant.
One last thing, would you guys recommend cleaning the sword at all? I have always left any knives or swords I sell in "as found condition" to not destroy the patina, however I have never asked anyone if that is the right way to sell blades.
Personally? I usually take any dirt and grime off but make sure to stop short of damaging any patina or plating. The gilding on your furniture is probably quite delicate.
#7
Posted 02 October 2009 - 03:12 PM
Thanks Varangian. Would it be ok to put M1860 Staff Officer's Sword in the auction title, even with the animal head on it? Also, do you feel $199 would be a good starting price?I thought the link you provided was to the auction for your sword...forget all the stuff about the 5th ONG.
M.C. Lilley, and most other cutlers and sellers of militaria, imported their blades and sometimes entire swords. M.C. Lilley might have imported this sword entire, or imported just the blade from a Solingen firm and made or contracted the furniture. The only sure way to tell would be a review of company records of the period, if they are even extant.
Personally? I usually take any dirt and grime off but make sure to stop short of damaging any patina or plating. The gilding on your furniture is probably quite delicate.
I think I am going to leave the sword as is. I know it can look much better, but I'd rather leave it like this than do some harm that cannot reversed. Is this a good idea, if I have no clue how to clean it up, or will a little soap and water be enough to take off some of the grime?
Thanks again.
Edited by smitty95, 02 October 2009 - 03:13 PM.
#8
Posted 03 October 2009 - 02:23 AM
Would it be ok to put M1860 Staff Officer's Sword in the auction title, even with the animal head on it? Also, do you feel $199 would be a good starting price?
That's how I would identify it. I can't advise as to price; I don't collect these swords.
I think I am going to leave the sword as is. I know it can look much better, but I'd rather leave it like this than do some harm that cannot reversed. Is this a good idea, if I have no clue how to clean it up, or will a little soap and water be enough to take off some of the grime?
Thanks again.
If you're going to sell it, I'd leave it as-is.
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