Jump to content


1840 forage cap???????

Started by Jim McCauley , Sep 07 2009 08:58 AM

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 07 September 2009 - 08:58 AM

Hello All,

What is this? Military, militia, band, reproduction? Buttons are back-marked Scovills & Co. EXTRA.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

Attached Images

  • 006.JPG
  • 005.JPG

Edited by Jim McCauley, 07 September 2009 - 09:15 AM.


#2 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:10 AM

B)

Attached Images

  • 009.JPG
  • 007.JPG

Edited by Jim McCauley, 07 September 2009 - 09:13 AM.


#3 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:10 AM

:think:

Attached Images

  • 011.JPG
  • 010.JPG


#4 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:11 AM

:ermm:

Attached Images

  • 012.JPG
  • 013.JPG


#5 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:11 AM

:pinch:

Attached Images

  • 014.JPG
  • 015.JPG


#6 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:12 AM

:D

Attached Images

  • 017.JPG
  • 016.JPG


#7 cwnorma

cwnorma
  • Members
    • Member ID: 594
  • 1,689 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 September 2009 - 07:22 PM

Well, its either a very rare 1840s era artillery forage cap, or it is a reproduction of one.

Unfortunately, I have not seen anywhere near enough of these to even begin to say if it is real.

Chris

#8 rmoore456

rmoore456
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,034
  • 890 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Illinois

Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:10 AM

Well, its either a very rare 1840s era artillery forage cap, or it is a reproduction of one.

Unfortunately, I have not seen anywhere near enough of these to even begin to say if it is real.

Chris


Would there be any form of machine stitching at that time?

Ray

#9 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:59 AM

Thanks for the replys.

I really don't know if there was machine stitching or not back in the day. I do know the buttons are original 1840 - 1850 period. Since federal buttons are still cheap, originals could have been put on a reproduction hat.

Is there someone on this forum or another web site that might offer more information about uniforms of this period?

Thanks in advance.

Jim

Edited by Jim McCauley, 08 September 2009 - 04:59 AM.


#10 Bob Hudson

Bob Hudson

    Forum Co-Founder (Ret)

  • Administrators
    • Member ID: 2
  • 21,750 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 September 2009 - 05:34 AM

I changed the topic's title in hopes of attracting someone who might have more knowledge about these.

#11 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 08 September 2009 - 05:55 AM

I changed the topic's title in hopes of attracting someone who might have more knowledge about these.



Thank you. :thumbsup:

#12 Lee Ragan

Lee Ragan
  • Members
    • Member ID: 97
  • 2,450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, Texas

Posted 08 September 2009 - 07:12 AM

Just my humble opinion, but I think this is a reproduction of an 1839 officers forage cap. (Officers caps didn't have the neck cape that enlisted caps had.) The red band is way too bright to be that old and I have doubts about the machine stiching. The cap eagle is all wrong as those caps didn't use that type hat badge. I have trouble with the blue wool used as it looks too bright. These caps were made of Navy blue (ie. very dark) ,wool. I have a reproduction of the 1939 cap and it looks pretty good, but still a repro. This one appears to be a copy of the later version that had the visor protruding out over the eyes, instead of the earlier versions that had the visor pointing almost straight down over the forehead.
Maybe someone more familuar with original caps of this type can either verify what I've said, or prove me wrong. I'd sure like to know for sure myself. :think:

P.S.
After looking at it even more closely, I'm more convinced it's a repro. The original versions were shaped a little differently in that they didn't rise up in front like a modern cap. This one has a profile more like a 20th century service cap. Also note the visor has binding and I don't think these caps did. I've got a book on early Army headgear published by the Smithsonian that describes and documents these caps and this one just doesn't ring true.

Edited by Lee Ragan, 08 September 2009 - 07:17 AM.


#13 Jim McCauley

Jim McCauley
  • Members
    • Member ID: 184
  • 178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hudson Valley, New York

Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:01 AM

Just my humble opinion, but I think this is a reproduction of an 1839 officers forage cap. (Officers caps didn't have the neck cape that enlisted caps had.) The red band is way too bright to be that old and I have doubts about the machine stiching. The cap eagle is all wrong as those caps didn't use that type hat badge. I have trouble with the blue wool used as it looks too bright. These caps were made of Navy blue (ie. very dark) ,wool. I have a reproduction of the 1939 cap and it looks pretty good, but still a repro. This one appears to be a copy of the later version that had the visor protruding out over the eyes, instead of the earlier versions that had the visor pointing almost straight down over the forehead.
Maybe someone more familuar with original caps of this type can either verify what I've said, or prove me wrong. I'd sure like to know for sure myself. :think:

P.S.
After looking at it even more closely, I'm more convinced it's a repro. The original versions were shaped a little differently in that they didn't rise up in front like a modern cap. This one has a profile more like a 20th century service cap. Also note the visor has binding and I don't think these caps did. I've got a book on early Army headgear published by the Smithsonian that describes and documents these caps and this one just doesn't ring true.


Thanks Lee,

I'm open to this one being a repro but as for the shape, I pulled up the front of the cap for the picture as I thought that was the correct way for it to look. It normally sits with a "floppy" look to it.

The eagle insignia has me puzzled also. I read somewhere that some of these caps were in service into the civil war period. Maybe the eagle was a later addition.

It's a time period where I have no knowledge of hats or caps. All I know is this one is old. How old is the $64,000 question!

Best regards.

Jim

#14 VMI88

VMI88
  • Members
    • Member ID: 265
  • 2,283 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 08 September 2009 - 02:07 PM

Almost certainly a reproduction. Machine stitching did exist at the time but was rarely used on military uniforms. The condition of the cloth and leather is much too good for it to be original.

Bill

#15 grrrldoc

grrrldoc
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,277
  • 251 posts

Posted 08 September 2009 - 02:51 PM

It looks like a reproduction of a M1839 forage cap, or "wheel cap".


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)