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Fantasy, repro or counterfeit EGA's


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#26 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 02:05 PM

From his photos, it's hard to see closeup detail, but I can tell that it's a cast piece of junk, even with these photos. Look at the supposed double looped rope on the anchor ring. Those double ropes are cast into the ring and flattened on the reverse. That's pretty much all one needs to know that it's fake, but this seller has done this before with crummy photos, maybe adding some original rank emblems to spice up the auction, and he obviously knows what type of EGA it is, so why a $39.00 starting bid. He's phishing for a high final bid and that's all I can see with this auction.

Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 08:36 PM.
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#27 usmcaviator

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 06:47 PM

Here is my opinion on these fakes..

1. They are made by the same person
2. They all carry distinct cast, "ground out", or melted looking depressions on the back..
3. The front side features no crisp line detail, rather a funky looking flat and burnished look..
4. Are very thick castings, look at the width of the globe wall when viewing the back sides of the globes..
5. The person making these is either a jeweler or is well versed in jeweler methods and metalurgy.
6. Are way over the top to ever be considered real...

My opinion...

Maj Manifor

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 08:31 PM.


#28 bobgee

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 07:10 AM

Mike...Thanks for posting and commenting on these Bogus pieces. I have seen that applied 'J.R. Gaunt - London' logo before on a fake rare type metal Royal Flying Corps wing badge. I agree that was not the style of this renowned Brit insignia manufacturer.
Since we're looking at "Big Droopy" officer egas here, I'm re-posting a couple of pics of one I bought at an OMSA convention 6-7 years ago. Totally Bogus! But it shows what this guy....and I agree that it's probably one guy with some jewelry manufacturing knowledge or he's subbing it out overseas. Anyhow.........there is some scary stuff out there. Semper Fi......Bob
Bogus_Fantasy_Droopy_Officer.JPG

#29 bobgee

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 07:12 AM

Reverse of Bogus "Big Droopy" officer...

Bogus_Fantasy_Droopy_Rev.JPG

#30 USMCRECON

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 04:31 PM

I think I was a victim of this Gettysburg (actually Oldberg if I remember correctly, which is near Gettysburg). I bought the EGA pictured below about 5 years ago from a shop that had a lot of display cabinets with militaria and one wuith a lot of Marine stuff in it. One of the items was a nice looking old service cover EGA and I ended up buying it for $150. After looking at some of the EGAs here, I think I ended up buying a fake.

Since I took rather high res photos it seems only one will fit on this post. I'll post the rear view in a follow-on.

Comments please...

Unk_EGA1.JPG

Edited by USMCRECON, 20 September 2007 - 04:36 PM.


#31 USMCRECON

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 04:32 PM

Here's the backside. It doesn't show well in the pic but the anchor is attached to the rather thick disc whic,h,in turn, is attached to the back of the globe.

Unk_EGA2.JPG

Edited by USMCRECON, 20 September 2007 - 04:39 PM.


#32 usmcaviator

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:03 AM

Yes, that is one of the known fakes, fantasy pieces, that I had described above coming out of that area. Note the thick casting, and the beveled out area to the rear and the stove black appearance. Yours appears to have been rubbed and distressed to give it an older look. Definately meant to decieve. I wish I could meet the person who made these face to face.

Mike

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 11:59 AM.
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#33 USMCRECON

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 06:20 AM

I'm probably within my rights to ask, Mike. Unfortunately, as it said, it was several years ago and, while I probably kept the receipt for a while, I have long since thrown it away.

I had done some business with the owner of this shop as on eBay in the past (a couple military prints and books) and all that was fine so I thought I could trust him. When I bought the EGA in question, I asked the counterman if it was an original or a replica item. While I stood there, he called the shop owner and asked him and he said it was an original and proclaimed that he does not sell replicas in his shop. You're also right about the wear issue on the EGA. The finish of the EGA, at least on the front, was very nice, almost mirror-smooth. The apparent finish wear, with what looked like brass showing through the black finish, was convincing, particularly to a non-expert like me.

The sad thing is that the next time I went to the Gettysburg area, I made a special trip to his shop and bought a couple there small, and rather common, Marine items from him and those were quite genuine. It seems he is intermingling replica stuff with genuine items and I think he is knowledgable to know the difference.

Thanks all for your comments and thanks to Brig for suggesting I post the EGA on the open forum. It's a bit embarrassing to admit that I was ignorant enough to have been duped like this but it's better to know one way or the other. I have to admit that my trust level related to Marine items overall, and EGAs in particular, has diminished considerably of late after seeing so many examples of fakes/replicas here, including a couple that I've personally been duped on. Suffice it to say I will not be going back to that shop again......for anything.

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 12:04 PM.
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#34 usmcaviator

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:44 PM

Bill,
Yes the seller knows better and has been selling/collecting USMC for some time, hopefully he is watching. We all get taken, in some form, at some time. Thanks for sharing so we can all learn.

Mike

#35 USMCRECON

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:11 AM

I saw this EGA on eBay yesterday. It is item #110179286133 and is listed as a "U.S. MARINE WW1 FRENCH HYBRID EGA WWI....."

I have a very similar one that was identified by forum members as a fantasy EGA. I assume this is also a fantasy EGA.

Fantasy_EGA2.jpg


Edited by USMCRECON, 12 October 2007 - 04:13 AM.


#36 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 06:58 AM

Hey Bill, yes it is one of the fantasy types that have been around for some time. It has also been said these initially were created as a reunion emblem after WW1... perhaps this is just part of the mystic of their history. ;) Here is a link to the ref sec were you can see others that are just as popular with the Sellers whom represent these are the real McCoy

s/f Darrell

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 23 April 2008 - 05:32 AM.


#37 bobgee

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 02:44 PM

Darn!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just missed this pair of "RARE" egas, found in the pocket of an old army blouse up in the Chambersburg, PA area. see at 110176059440. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/crying.gif Both sold for $249. Never fear though, he has another, http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif a "U.S. MARINE French Hybrid EGA USMC emblem" also found in the pocket of af an old army blouse. Some guys are just lucky, I guess! :D See it at 110179286133. Seller sez he doesn't know much about USMC emblems. Probably can get this real cheap. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/ermm.gif Has had it validated at the Military Museum in Gettysburg, PA as GEN-U-INE and WORTH THOUSANDS!!!!!!!Make sure you know about them 'HYBRID' French USMC emblems or you might end an unhappy sucessful bidder!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( Check it out with my old buddy, "Ca. V. At. EMPTOR"

Semper Fi......Bobgee ;)

#38 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 07:21 PM

My honest opinion is it's a complete cast fake, just like all the other fakes of this type that have been discussed before. I believe Bob G. posted an identical fake bronze service emblem a while back that exhibits every characteristic as this one, minus the Meyer shield hallmark. The rope fouling, anchor flukes, globe and eagle are all wrong for this type of Meyer emblem and it would appear to be one from the same family of fakes that USNUSA is peddling. The flukes and rope fouling are a dead giveaway of his junk! The hallmark alarms me, because the fakers have now taken their fakery one step further. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that this seller pretty much sticks with selling only USMC, so why is he saying that he hasn't seen this type of emblem before and doesn't know what it is? That just sounds plain fishy to me, as if he's trying the innocent seller ploy. I also notice he doesn't give a money back guarantee or return policy, so why mess with it?

Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 12:07 PM.
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#39 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 07:36 PM

I wanted everyone to compare an absolutely known fake emblem from the ripoff seller USNUSA and this dress "Gooney". Please check out the rope fouling style and especially the details from both anchors, including flukes, stocks, shanks and ridges. There is no doubt in my mind that both of these emblems were made by the same crook!

Gary

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#40 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 08:04 PM

Bob,

While some would say this is a nice looking emblem, and I'll admit it does have some attractiveness and workmanship to it, I just have a hard time getting past the part where it was made to deceive, and I'm sorry to say, someone is going to getted burned big time on it. It took me a little while to find Bob G's fake service emblem post and leaving the anchors out of it, the rest of the comparison in both emblems look like a match. Notice that funky cast globe with funky raised lines. Can't really call them latitude and longitude lines, so I'll just call them funky raised lines. The rope fouling is very similar, right down to the solder points of the end of ropes on the flukes. The eagles also look like a match, with the same amount of wear to the chests, but nowhere else. To me, it looks like the faker is mixing and matching parts and metals and trying to get it right with spot on emblems, and now we have that scary Meyer logo stamp to add to the "what to watch for" list.

Gary

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 12:08 PM.
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#41 bobgee

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 05:26 AM

Gary you nailed it! It's more of the same "good-looking" crap we've seen before. Sadly it's at $800 this AM with 3 days to go. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/crying.gif
Semper Fi.............Bobgee

#42 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 03:12 PM

A real shame, Bob. I think that Meyer hallmark the faker has added is going to cause many problems for unknowing bidders in the future.

s/f, Gary

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 31 December 2007 - 12:08 PM.
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#43 themick

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 04:59 PM

I'd just like to say here I agree entirely with what Gary has to say. Since I made a couple of bad purchases from this USNUSA guy, and discussed them with Gary, I've been paying close attention to his stuff, and others. And frankly, I've never seen those funky lines on any real EGA. This one on EBay is a BAD piece.

Steve

#44 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 11:26 AM

Well MrMrc is at it again... this time with a new repo, appears to be a WW2 Meyer? I have no doubt these will take on a new purpose once they are out of his hands... http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

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Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 25 October 2007 - 11:27 AM.


#45 Bob Hudson

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 07:45 AM

This looks flat to me, like one of those pinback sweetheart EGA's - is it supposed to be like that?

gaunt1.jpg
gaunt2.jpg
gaunt3.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 March 2008 - 09:13 AM.
Mod Note: this post started a thread called "Gaunt EGA on Ebay" it and the following 28 posts have been moved here for reference.


#46 bobgee

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 07:52 AM

FAKE CRAP!!!!!!!
Bobgee

#47 Bob Hudson

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:48 AM

That's what I thought too - but I just went back and looked at who the seller is: he's someone who really knows his stuff (he's also a forum member, although he's only posted a few times) and would never sell a fake - and he's pretty straight forward in his description:




I cannot state "as a matter of fact" the exact era this EGA may have been worn. I can tell you that a reputable collector found this exact EGA on a documented WWI era Marine Officer's Campaign Hat. It is without a doubt an original JR GAUNT LONDON large EGA appropriate for a hat. It is clearly marked as such on the back. The original screw post is solidly attached, as well as the straightening pin. This EGA shows minimal wear... The detail is excellent. If you can provide additional information on this EGA please feel free to do so. If you have questions or need additional photos please feel free to ask.


Here's the listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 March 2008 - 09:14 AM.
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#48 Bob Hudson

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:02 AM

I find pieces like this to be very intriguing - my opinion is that if something is different enough from what we're used to seeing than it most likely is real, based on the belief "Why go to all the trouble of making a fake of a non-existent piece?" That would be like making a counterfeit three dollar bill. Unlike say, knives, I don't think that we yet have "fantasy" EGA's.

From the photos, the Gaunt piece does tend be be much flatter than what we're used to seeing and flatter EGA's all tend to be quickly labeled "sweetheart pieces" much like this one:

sweetheartega.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 March 2008 - 09:15 AM.
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#49 bobgee

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:02 AM

quote name='C. Roelens' date='Nov 20 2007, 09:19 AM' post='78864']
Bobgee,

Can you do any better than that?

Charles Roelens
[/quote]

Chuck - Excuse my abruptness. What turned me off is the "J.R. Gaunt - London" placques. As a long-time former collector of Brit stuff I have never encountered a genuine "Gaunt" piece of any type marked this way. The badge itself is I believe a sweetheart item, (someone suggested when I posted a near identical badge a few months ago that it might have been worn on a non-reg buckle.) I think it it dates to the WWII era. I am unaware of any official USMC-type badge that matches this piece. Here's pics of the one I have and previously posted.

Strange_Bird_OBV.JPG Strange_Bird_REV.JPG

This is my opinion....I'm always ready to be set straight with factual evidence. So othe USMC emblem collectors...please chime in.
Semper Fi.....Bobgee

#50 Bob Hudson

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:25 AM

Here's the two pieces side-by-side:

gauntpair.jpg

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 07 March 2008 - 09:16 AM.
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