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Navy Rate Abbreviations

Started by CTI1610 , Aug 01 2009 12:25 AM

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#1 CTI1610

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 12:25 AM

I'm trying to find out how U.S. Navy rate abbreviations have changed over the years. John Stacey's book United States Navy Rating Badges and Marks 1833 to 2008 gives the rating abbreviations for set periods of time (1918-1921, 1921-1942, 1942-1945, 1945-1948, 1948-present) but does not appear to address how the petty officer rates would have been abbreviated during those periods.

For example, he shows that the Yeoman rating was abbreviated Y. up to 1942, then Y until 1948 and YN from 1948 to present. What I'd like to know is what would have been the official abbreviation for, say, a Yeoman third class up until 1942. Was it Y.3, Y.3c, Y. 3c, or Y. 3/c? Or from 1942 to 1948, was it Y3, Y3c, Y 3c, Y 3/c or what?

In reading through this forum, it seems the odds are pretty high that someone out there knows the answer.

Thanks.
Sherman Pulst
(CTI1610)

#2 dpcsdan

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 07:18 AM

I'm trying to find out how U.S. Navy rate abbreviations have changed over the years. John Stacey's book United States Navy Rating Badges and Marks 1833 to 2008 gives the rating abbreviations for set periods of time (1918-1921, 1921-1942, 1942-1945, 1945-1948, 1948-present) but does not appear to address how the petty officer rates would have been abbreviated during those periods.

For example, he shows that the Yeoman rating was abbreviated Y. up to 1942, then Y until 1948 and YN from 1948 to present. What I'd like to know is what would have been the official abbreviation for, say, a Yeoman third class up until 1942. Was it Y.3, Y.3c, Y. 3c, or Y. 3/c? Or from 1942 to 1948, was it Y3, Y3c, Y 3c, Y 3/c or what?

In reading through this forum, it seems the odds are pretty high that someone out there knows the answer.

Thanks.
Sherman Pulst
(CTI1610)

Here's a very decent start, but as the site mentions it is not the final word.
Good luck

http://www.bluejacke...sn_ratings.html
-dan

#3 CTI1610

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 11:06 AM

Here's a very decent start, but as the site mentions it is not the final word.
Good luck

http://www.bluejacke...sn_ratings.html
-dan


Thanks for the link, Dan. The BJM site gives the various rating abbreviations over the years but not quite what I'm looking for.
If, today, the Navy were to make a list of sailors' names and their rates, we all know it would be something like:
YN3 Black
MM2 Green
GM3 Brown
All are written with no space between rating and petty officer grade. But I don't think it was always like that.

Was it ever the case that instead of no space between rating and petty officer grade there might have been:
-- a space between them (GM 3 instead of GM3)
-- the petty officer grade followed by a 'c' (GM 3c or GM3c)
-- the petty officer grade followed by a '/c' (GM 3/c or GM3/c)

See what I mean? We know from sources like the BJM site and John Stacey's book how the rating was abbreviated
(one letter or more, with or without periods). It's the proper way to add the petty officer grade that eludes me.
I've seen articles about sailors during WWII that use the '3c' and '3/c' methods but are those official abbreviations
or simply journalistic conventions of the era?

What I'm hoping to find is a Navy reference(s) showing how the petty officer grade would have been appended to
the rating abbreviation during the various time periods. Failing that, I will be happy to take the word of anyone
who sounds like they know what they're talking about.

Sherman Pulst
(CTI1610)

#4 camonick

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 03:25 PM

.......Was it ever the case that instead of no space between rating and petty officer grade there might have been:
-- a space between them (GM 3 instead of GM3)
-- the petty officer grade followed by a 'c' (GM 3c or GM3c)
-- the petty officer grade followed by a '/c' (GM 3/c or GM3/c)

See what I mean? We know from sources like the BJM site and John Stacey's book how the rating was abbreviated
(one letter or more, with or without periods). It's the proper way to add the petty officer grade that eludes me.
I've seen articles about sailors during WWII that use the '3c' and '3/c' methods but are those official abbreviations
or simply journalistic conventions of the era?

What I'm hoping to find is a Navy reference(s) showing how the petty officer grade would have been appended to
the rating abbreviation during the various time periods. Failing that, I will be happy to take the word of anyone
who sounds like they know what they're talking about.

Sherman Pulst
(CTI1610)


Sherman-
I'm not sure what kind of Naval reference will convince you, but here is what I have.
This is a cropped version of the first page of the Muster List from the USS MONTOUR (APA-101). As you can see, it is from June of 1945. It is 11 pages long.
It was given to me by the widow of Dick Williams. He was one of the coordinators of the USS MONTOUR ASSOC. He must have used it to keep a record of his fellow shipmates. He was listed as being a RM3c (T) on the last page.
Hope this helps.
Nick

montour_muster_pg_1.jpg

#5 dpcsdan

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 03:26 PM

Sherman,
I feel it jumped all over the board, but you can look at back issues of All Hands magazine on line and I just look at the March 1940 issue and saw S.K.1.c as how All Hands referred to a medal recipient.

Here's the link: http://www.news.navy...ds.asp?x=search

This should help for at least the 1930s through today.

Pre-1920 will be more difficult unless you can access some old personnel records.
Perhaps you could post your findings?
Good luck,
-dan

#6 craig_pickrall

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 03:58 PM

I looked at a 1918 LFM and they had certain ranks / rates listed in an abbreviation chart. The enlisted rates are as follows:

bg. c. p. o. = Brigade Chief Petty Officer
bg. sf. p. o. = Brigade Staff Petty Officer
rg. c. p. o. = Regimental Chief Petty Officer
rg. sf. p. o. = Regimental Staff Petty Officer
bn. c. p. o. = Battalion Chief Petty Officer
bn. sf. p. o. = Battalion Staff Petty Officer
pt. 1. = Platoon Leader (Petty Officer in charge of a platoon)
c. p. o. = Chief Petty Officer
1. p. o. = First Petty Officer
2. p. o. = Second Petty Officer
p. o. = Petty Officer

#7 CTI1610

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 04:04 PM

Sherman-
I'm not sure what kind of Naval reference will convince you, but here is what I have.
This is a cropped version of the first page of the Muster List from the USS MONTOUR (APA-101). As you can see, it is from June of 1945. It is 11 pages long.
It was given to me by the widow of Dick Williams. He was one of the coordinators of the USS MONTOUR ASSOC. He must have used it to keep a record of his fellow shipmates. He was listed as being a RM3c (T) on the last page.
Hope this helps.
Nick

Nick --
Thank you very much. The Muster List provides exactly what I was looking for.

Sherman

#8 CTI1610

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 04:08 PM

Sherman,
I feel it jumped all over the board, but you can look at back issues of All Hands magazine on line and I just look at the March 1940 issue and saw S.K.1.c as how All Hands referred to a medal recipient.

Here's the link: http://www.news.navy...ds.asp?x=search

This should help for at least the 1930s through today.

Pre-1920 will be more difficult unless you can access some old personnel records.
Perhaps you could post your findings?
Good luck,
-dan

Dan --
Thanks so much! That All Hands repository is a treasure-trove of information. I have no doubt I'll be rummaging through old issues for a long time to come. I will be happy to post my findings once I've satisfactorily correlated abbreviation format to specific periods. Thanks again.

Also, I don't know if you recall but we had corresponded briefly about a Specialist 'Q' crow. I finally got one...a white PO2 from 1945.

Sherman

#9 CTI1610

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 04:09 PM

I looked at a 1918 LFM and they had certain ranks / rates listed in an abbreviation chart. The enlisted rates are as follows:

bg. c. p. o. = Brigade Chief Petty Officer
bg. sf. p. o. = Brigade Staff Petty Officer
rg. c. p. o. = Regimental Chief Petty Officer
rg. sf. p. o. = Regimental Staff Petty Officer
bn. c. p. o. = Battalion Chief Petty Officer
bn. sf. p. o. = Battalion Staff Petty Officer
pt. 1. = Platoon Leader (Petty Officer in charge of a platoon)
c. p. o. = Chief Petty Officer
1. p. o. = First Petty Officer
2. p. o. = Second Petty Officer
p. o. = Petty Officer


Thank you. I appreciate the assist.

Sherman

#10 dpcsdan

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:37 AM

Dan --
Thanks so much! That All Hands repository is a treasure-trove of information. I have no doubt I'll be rummaging through old issues for a long time to come. I will be happy to post my findings once I've satisfactorily correlated abbreviation format to specific periods. Thanks again.

Also, I don't know if you recall but we had corresponded briefly about a Specialist 'Q' crow. I finally got one...a white PO2 from 1945.

Sherman

Sherman,
I remember our correspondence.
I'm glad you found a Spec-Q.
-dan


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