Navy Shoulder Cords at Recruit Training Centers - Red Ropes etc.

[ABrangerjoe]

I've seen very few sailors wear this and I've wondered what it was for, any ideas?

Thanks a lot!

-Joe

[svt40]

Used only in recruit training to designate recruit company commanders (aka Drill Instructors)

[ABrangerjoe]

Okay, thanks!

-Joe

[Salvage Sailor]

Correct, 'Red Ropers' are USN RTC Company Commanders and 'Blue Ropers' are Assistant Company Commanders

 

 

[svt40]

Correct, 'Red Ropers' are USN RTC Company Commanders and 'Blue Ropers' are Assistant Company Commanders

 

Holy cow how old is that photo?? An AA has an assistant CC??

[sigsaye]

Holy cow how old is that photo?? An AA has an assistant CC??

I was at my sons graduation from boot camp in May. The blue rope was abolished in the early eighties. They were not in use when I was a CC from '85-90 except for use by "Part Time" volunteers that helped with the anual NJROTC and Sea Cadet sumer camps we held.

 

However, this May I saw blue ropes again and my son said that they were worn by RDCs in training (RDC is Recruit Division Chief, a term which has replaced Company Commander).

[sigsaye]

I was at my sons graduation from boot camp in May. The blue rope was abolished in the early eighties. They were not in use when I was a CC from '85-90 except for use by "Part Time" volunteers that helped with the anual NJROTC and Sea Cadet sumer camps we held.

 

However, this May I saw blue ropes again and my son said that they were worn by RDCs in training (RDC is Recruit Division Chief, a term which has replaced Company Commander).

Just incase any other photos of these cords pop up, there were some others in use during my time Pushing Boots.('85-'90)

Red and White: Inspectors from "Standards and Evaluation Department" and Military Evaluation Department" These were the folks who inspected and graded all recruit evolutions.

 

Blue and Gold: Compnany Commanders of "Special Units" These were recruit companies that made up the band, chior,and the nebulous "Staff". Hard to explain what they were, you had to be there.

 

Black and white or blue: Volunteer Assistant Company Commanders. During the Summer, we would get groups of NJROTC and Sea Cadets aboard RTC for a short two week "Mini Boot Camp". We did not have the man power to support two company commanders ors staffs for these wvolutions, so we would assign one real CC to a company and get a volunteer from the support personel at the base. Since these units had females in them we generally tried to get a female Sailor for each of these companies. At the Time, Great Lakes did not train Females, so there wer no actual female CCs there. The volunteers would get a couple days of a "readers Digest" version of the training manual and a black and white or blue rope (depended on what we had available to be honest) ond off they would go. The real CC got credit for a push (dealing with a bunch of 14 to 17 year old kisd is a pure nightmare. The Volunteers got a nice Letter of Commendation.

 

The "Blue Roper" in Salvage Sailors photo was from a system where an outstanding recruit would stay behind (a reward?) and assist his CC with his next push. The Idea being that he would relate better with the recruits I guess. We did not have these when I went to boot camp in Jan '73, and they were not used when I went back to push in '85. I was in Great Lakes, so maybe it was different in SD and ORL.

 

Steve Hesson

[ABrangerjoe]

Thanks for the help guys!

-Joe

[svt40]

Never saw a blue cord in SD either. I was in one of the last companies that carried the M1 Garand in boot camp in 1989. Watched them pack them up from our barracks as we were leaving.

[sigsaye]

Never saw a blue cord in SD either. I was in one of the last companies that carried the M1 Garand in boot camp in 1989. Watched them pack them up from our barracks as we were leaving.

I know that in GL, we did away with all but the red rope in '88 as that was the only one recognized in uniform regs. we did keep the blue/black&white for the NJs sumer camp. They were still humping M-1s when I left in '90 although the word had come down that they were going away. When I was a Boot, we carried '03-A3s.

Steve Hesson

[Will_C.]

On 7/20/2009 at 7:24 PM, sigsaye said:

I was at my sons graduation from boot camp in May. The blue rope was abolished in the early eighties. They were not in use when I was a CC from '85-90 except for use by "Part Time" volunteers that helped with the anual NJROTC and Sea Cadet sumer camps we held.

 

However, this May I saw blue ropes again and my son said that they were worn by RDCs in training (RDC is Recruit Division Chief, a term which has replaced Company Commander).

Good morning! RDC stands for Recruit Division COMMANDER; not Chief. Here is a picture of the current breast insignia for RDCs.   I was in the Navy from 1992-1997. In late 1993-early 1994 I volunteered my off-duty hours to working with the Philadelphia and Pennsylvania divisions of U.S. Naval Sea Cadets.  They were sponsored by the Navy League to ride my ship, the U.S.S. John F. Kennedy (CV-67) when it was put in dry dock at the Naval Ship Yards in Philadelphia in late-1993.  I was "voluntold" to be their escort while they were on-board. They were integrated into ship's routine in areas where they would be safe and not too much in the way. I actually enjoyed working with these youngsters.  They were fired up and eager.  When we reached the yards in Philly, their commanding officer invited me to work with them on their monthly drill night.  They told me they needed someone to volunteer as a Company Commander to put the cadets through a mini-boot camp and prepare them for a competition that would determine which division of Sea Cadets would be sent to Canada for a cadet exchange program.  I volunteered and DURING DRILL TIME AND DRILL TIME ONLY, I was afforded the opportunity to wear the Recruit Company Commander's red aiguillette. I spoke with a BMC in Deck division who had served as an RCC.  I told him what I was doing for the Sea Cadets. Turns out he had been a Company Commander for a group of Sea Cadets who came to RTC Orlando when he was pushing.  I asked about any potential trouble wearing that red aiguillette on my uniform. He said that wearing it just for the time when I was actually working with the Cadets would NOT be a problem. He even loaned me his Red Book to use. It was so neat to be able to "pull Company Commander duty" as an enlisted E-3. The cadets were eager to learn! I taught them how to stand a proper watch (not talking at parade rest, etc..), how to properly wear and maintain their uniforms, etc.

 

One evening a young Sea Cadet came to drill in dress whites that looked like he had just saved both divisions from a nuclear wrinkle grenade. I took him to task and asked why he came to drill with an unsat. uniform. He started to tell me his Mamma didn't iron it. I cut him off as soon as he said "My Mamma" and told him "Your Mamma isn't the cadet. You are. It's your responsibility to iron your uniform. If you don't know how to use and iron, ask your mother to teach you!"  I didn't know his mother was in the back of the drill hall. All of a sudden I heard someone clapping and looked back to the source of the sound. His mother was grinning ear-to-ear and clapping. Apparently she agreed with me reprimanding her son.  It was satisfying to be able to teach those young hard-chargers. 

 

While I was volunteering as a Recruit Company Commander with the Philadelphia and Pennsylvania divisions of Sea Cadets, I did not get to wear the Company Commander "cookie badge" as that is a restricted command-issued item. However, after I separated from the Navy in 1997, I contacted the LCPO of the RDC "C-School" and told her about my volunteer duty and asked if they still had some surplus "Company Commander" cookie badges left from before the designation was changed to "Recruit Division Commander".  She didn't have any of those, but she did send me an R.D.C. cookie badge. I still have my red "rope" and the RDC cookie badge. I cherish both items and would never part with either for love nor money. 

images.jfif

 

 

 

 

RDC "COOKIE BADGE".   Finally! Didn't notice the improper file extension. Sorry about that!! 

[Salvage Sailor]

On 7/20/2009 at 5:36 PM, svt40 said:

 

Holy cow how old is that photo?? An AA (Airman Apprentice E-2) as an assistant CC??

 

Jimmy Carter's Navy

 

PNCS Harold Millman (Red Roper) Recruit Company Commander and his Airman Apprentice (Blue Roper) Assistant Company Commander.  The USN was very short on manpower during the late Vietnam era draw down and RTC Honor graduates were being retained as ACC's for one cycle prior to a promotion, assignment to their A School, and then the coveted choice of orders from their respective detailer at BuPers.  This AA had been in Millman's Company just prior to this one at Recruit Training Center Orlando, Florida, and was then assigned as an ACC Blue Roper to Company 136 in January 1977.

 

 

[sigsaye]

2 hours ago, Salvage Sailor said:

 

Jimmy Carter's Navy

 

PNCS Harold Millman (Red Roper) Recruit Company Commander and his Airman Apprentice (Blue Roper) Assistant Company Commander.  The USN was very short on manpower during the late Vietnam era draw down and RTC Honor graduates were being retained as ACC's for one cycle prior to a promotion, assignment to their A School, and then the coveted choice of orders from their respective detailer at BuPers.  This AA had been in Millman's Company just prior to this one at Recruit Training Center Orlando, Florida, and was then assigned as an ACC Blue Roper to Company 136 in January 1977.

 

 

God, I hated that crappy uniform. Avoided wearing it as much as possible. Anyway, when I went back to push in ‘85, they had gotten rid of ghee ropes that buttoned on and had all pin on. They pinned to the shoulder seam, so hung down much farther on your arm. Some guys got their elbows hung up in them. 

[Will_C.]

On 7/20/2009 at 9:26 PM, Salvage Sailor said:

Correct, 'Red Ropers' are USN RTC Company Commanders and 'Blue Ropers' are Assistant Company Commanders

What led the navy to stop non-petty officers from being Assistant Recruit Company Commanders? 

[sigsaye]

1 hour ago, Will_C. said:

What led the navy to stop non-petty officers from being Assistant Recruit Company Commanders? 

Could have been that the Navy went to 2 RCC/RDC per company, so no need. When I was a recruit, (1972), we did not have one. We had 1 CC. Our Sister Company CC and our CC worked together to run both companies. When I went back in 1984, there were 2 CCs per company. Plus, as part of your CC training , you “Shadowed” a company. 

[ItemCo16527]

When I was at Great Lakes in 2010, red ropes were worn by both RDCs and Assistant RDCs, and blue ropes were worn by RDCs in training.

[Will_C.]

That's how it was when I went through boot camp in March '92. Only Company Commanders in training wore the blue aiguillette. 

[Will_C.]

9 hours ago, ItemCo16527 said:

When I was at Great Lakes in 2010, red ropes were worn by both RDCs and Assistant RDCs, and blue ropes were worn by RDCs in training.

That's how it was when I went through in March 1997. 

[sigsaye]

Just to add to this topic. Here are my pics of the duty. First pic is me, September 1985, Great Lakes, Illinois as a Recruit Company Commander. The other photos are of my companies, last photo is dons company photo from 2009. 

[Salvage Sailor]

On 3/3/2021 at 12:57 AM, sigsaye said:

Could have been that the Navy went to 2 RCC/RDC per company, so no need. When I was a recruit, (1972), we did not have one. We had 1 CC. Our Sister Company CC and our CC worked together to run both companies. When I went back in 1984, there were 2 CCs per company. Plus, as part of your CC training , you “Shadowed” a company. 

 

That is exactly right Steve, in the late 1970's the change was made from Battalions and Companies to a Port and Starboard system with (2) Company Commanders, thus no need for an ACC.  It also meant no more Rifles and Infantry drill, only marching.

 

Fabulous photos of your Boots too, love the flags and the pride behind them.

BZ

[sigsaye]

9 hours ago, Salvage Sailor said:

 

That is exactly right Steve, in the late 1970's the change was made from Battalions and Companies to a Port and Starboard system with (2) Company Commanders, thus no need for an ACC.  It also meant no more Rifles and Infantry drill, only marching.

 

Fabulous photos of your Boots too, love the flags and the pride behind them.

BZ

Thanks. When I went to push in ‘84, they had returned to carrying rifles (demilitarized M-1s), and wearing white leggings. The leggings were put on after Service Week (week 6). 

[Will_C.]

On 7/21/2009 at 7:41 AM, sigsaye said:

Just incase any other photos of these cords pop up, there were some others in use during my time Pushing Boots.('85-'90)

Red and White: Inspectors from "Standards and Evaluation Department" and "Military Evaluation Department" These were the folks who inspected and graded all recruit evolutions.

 

Blue and Gold: Compnany Commanders of "Special Units" These were recruit companies that made up the band, choir, and the nebulous "Staff". Hard to explain what they were, you had to be there.

 

Black and white or blue: Volunteer Assistant Company Commanders. During the Summer, we would get groups of NJROTC and Sea Cadets aboard RTC for a short two week "Mini Boot Camp". We did not have the man power to support two company commanders or staffs for these evolutions, so we would assign one real CC to a company and get a volunteer from the support personnel at the base. Since these units had females in them we generally tried to get a female Sailor for each of these companies. At the Time, Great Lakes did not train Females, so there were no actual female CCs there. The volunteers would get a couple days of a "readers Digest" version of the training manual and a black and white or blue rope (depended on what we had available to be honest) and off they would go. The real CC got credit for a push (dealing with a bunch of 14 to 17 year old kids is a pure nightmare. The Volunteers got a nice Letter of Commendation.

 

The "Blue Roper" in Salvage Sailors photo was from a system where an outstanding recruit would stay behind (a reward?) and assist his CC with his next push. The Idea being that he would relate better with the recruits I guess. We did not have these when I went to boot camp in Jan '73, and they were not used when I went back to push in '85. I was in Great Lakes, so maybe it was different in SD and ORL.

 

Steve Hesson

When I was in the Navy from 1992-1997, I went to AT "A-School" at NATTC in Millington, TN. The scarlet and white shoulder cord was worn by ASMT (A-School Military Training) staff, who were referred to as company commanders. These company commanders were in charge of the student barracks. I went to A-School as an 18-month "fleet return" and got along well with my Company Commanders. One of them told me that an A-school company commander wasn't really much more than a glorified baby sitter. (His words, not mine.)

 

When I went through boot camp back in March 1997, even the M.E.D. (Military Evaluation Department) staff wore their scarlet aiguillette. These, as you know, were RCCs on hold duty between pushes. I think the rotation went like this: 3 consecutive pushes and then a period of time in a holding job (like M.E.D.)

 

When you were a Company Commander, were you the hard-rump that would make everyone fall deathly silent the second you stepped into a compartment? Tell me the truth: Did you enjoy getting the opportunity to dish out everything you had to take when YOU were a raw recruit? Was it an ego trip to any degree? I know I would have rather enjoyed the idea of getting my turn to "dish it out"....

[patches]

San Diego Boot Camp, like 1963.

[Will_C.]

I noticed that in 1963 the company commander's red aiguillette was not affixed with the wrapped clasp pin like it is now. This looks like the variant with the button loop that's really made for a blouse or jacket with epaulets. Also, I notice that the company commanders did not have the Company Commander breast insignia. When did the Navy introduce the current variant of the red aiguillette with the wrapped clasp pin? When did the Navy introduce the Company Commander breast insignia (cookie badge)? 

 

Nice pic, by the way!! 

[Will_C.]

13 minutes ago, patches said:

San Diego Boot Camp, like 1963.

Nice photo! I noticed 2 things: 1.  The Company Commander's red aiguillette is not worn like it is today. The current uniform regulations authorizes this red aiguillette, but with a wrapped clasp pin that attaches 1/4" above the seam of the left sleeve. This variant of the aiguillette appears to be the one made for a blouse or jacket with epaulets and attaches with a button loop. 2. This is before the Company Commander breast insignia was introduced/authorized. In what year did the style of aiguillette change from the button loop to the wrapped clasp pin? In what year was the Company Commander breast insignia (cookie badge) introduced?