Antoon Posted July 12, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 12, 2009 I the left patch OK? It looks different than other patches I have. Greetings - Antoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoon Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share #2 Posted July 12, 2009 Both have plasic at the back side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted July 12, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 12, 2009 As far as I know the USMC cancelled the wear of SSI about 1947. For me personally both (merrowed edge) patches fall into the categorie "Made for collector market" or as novelty/blazer patch. The left one looks like one of the newer "Computer stiched" patches. Hope this helps. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted July 12, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 12, 2009 Well, if you consider that the US Army allows ex-marines to wear their divisional patches as combat patches, they aren't exactly collector's copies. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted July 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2009 You're right, I stand corrected! :salute: :salute: :salute: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted July 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 12, 2009 Well, if you consider that the US Army allows ex-marines to wear their divisional patches as combat patches, they aren't exactly collector's copies. -Ski No. Why folks continue to believe this is a mystery to me. The US Army does not allow ex-Marines to wear USMC SSI as a "combat Patch" (the proper name is Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service or SSI–FWTS). The only Soldiers who can wear USMC SSI on thie right shoulder are those US Army members specifically authorized in the regulations (paragraph 28-17, AR 670-1) to wear them if they were assigned to certain USMC units in Iraq. An ex-Marine cannot join the Army and put on the obsolete USMC SSI for his Marine Corps unit with the exception of WW2 Marine Corps veterans still on active duty in the Army. From the Army Regulation, "Soldiers who served with the 1st Marine Division from 19 March 2003 to 21 April 2003 during combat operations in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division shoulder sleeve insignia as their SSI-FWTS." Since then, the SSI for the 2nd Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), 2d Marine Aircraft Wing and 3d Marine Aircraft Wing have apparently also been authorized for wear by qualified Soldiers. Also from the regulation, "Other services. The Department of the Navy, the United States Marine Corps (USMC), and the Air Force do not authorize wear of SSI. Therefore, personnel who served in one of the designated areas during one of the specified periods, but who were not members of the U.S. Army, are not authorized to wear the SSI–FWTS on their right shoulder. The only exception to this policy is for U.S. Army members who served with the USMC during World War II from 15 March 1943 through 2 September 1946." The pictured Marine Corps SSI can certainly be worn by those Soldiers of the US Army who meet the criteria as spelled out in Army Regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted July 12, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 12, 2009 Ski is correct. I have first hand experience seeing active duty US Army NCO's wearing USMC division patches on the right shoulder One NCO I knew wore a 3rd Marine Div as his combat patch (Vietnam service). This was in the 2nd Armored Division at Ft Hood TX in the early 80's. Perhaps not "regulation", but it was "allowed." Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted July 12, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 12, 2009 I also talked with an Ex-Marine while deployed in 2005. He wore the patch on the right shoulder and I asked him about it. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted July 12, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 12, 2009 ...it then must be more than a handful of Marines that fall into this categorie. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth for the contractor to produce this insignia, wouldn' it? Maybe it's a little of both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted July 12, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 12, 2009 I also talked with an Ex-Marine while deployed in 2005. He wore the patch on the right shoulder and I asked him about it. -Ski I did not say it is not done, but it is not being done in accordance with Army regulations. We all know various unofficial insignia has and continues to be worn by Soldiers who either do not know better or believe what "everybody" says. They should be corrected by their NCOs. I did say it was not allowed by the Army according to Army Regulations. Ski is incorrect in his assertion that is being allowed by the Army. That was my point. Tolerated or ignored, perhaps, but it is not allowed. Some Soldiers may officially wear USMC SSI if they meet the criteria, some wear Marine Corps SSI because they want to or they are ignorant or do not care about the regulations. Who knows, the practice for ex-Marines and ex-Airman who go into the Army to wear long unused SSI for their former wartime service SSI in their former service may someday be regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted July 12, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 12, 2009 ...it then must be more than a handful of Marines that fall into this categorie. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth for the contractor to produce this insignia, wouldn' it?Maybe it's a little of both... It is not Marines that fall into the category to wear old Marine Corps SSI, it is Soldiers who have been attached to Marine units in Iraq who wear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted July 12, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 12, 2009 It is not Marines that fall into the category to wear old Marine Corps SSI, it is Soldiers who have been attached to Marine units in Iraq who wear them. The only legit Army uniforms I've ever seen with USMC patches on the "Combat patch" side have been from US Army personnel, attached with 1st MarDiv Fwd during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. I've never heard that it was a standard practice or that it was allowed by Army Regs for any former Marines in the Army to wear their divisional patches. I'm pretty sure ATB is correct, and that any Marines serving in the Army wearing their SSI from USMC service are doing so against Army regs. Nevertheless...there are examples of it being done. So...there is a market for USMC Division patches like these that are newly manufactured; not just for veterans, costumes, reenactments, and "collector's items" if this is still being done. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=31021&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoon Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted July 12, 2009 This is what I found on TIOH, See http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Alpha/Ma...orpsFwtsSSI.htm UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS Former Wartime Service Shoulder Sleeve Insignia Full Color ACU Subdued First Marine Division I Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward) Second Marine Division 2d Marine Aircraft Wing II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward) 3d Marine Aircraft Wing The above shoulder sleeve insignia are worn to indicate former wartime service as authorized in paragraph 28-17, AR 670-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted July 12, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 12, 2009 This is what I found on TIOH, See http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Alpha/Ma...orpsFwtsSSI.htm UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS Former Wartime Service Shoulder Sleeve Insignia Full Color ACU Subdued First Marine Division I Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward) Second Marine Division 2d Marine Aircraft Wing II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward) 3d Marine Aircraft Wing The above shoulder sleeve insignia are worn to indicate former wartime service as authorized in paragraph 28-17, AR 670-1. Right, as I have already posted earlier, these are for wear for US Army personnel attached to these units in Iraq. I also posted that paragraph out of the regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted July 13, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 13, 2009 Gents, please refrain from the term "ex-Marine", it is a term of negative connotation - and used by Marines when referring to someone who was discharged from active duty for less than honorable service to the Corps. We respectfully refer to our fellow Marines, with honorable service or retired as "former Marines" Thank you, s/f Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted July 13, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 13, 2009 Well, at least we know that some colored and subdued (including ACU) merrowed Marine insignia (as listed on atb's referred site) are authorized and should not be considered collector's copies.... Everybody agree? -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted July 13, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 13, 2009 Well, at least we know that some colored and subdued (including ACU) merrowed Marine insignia (as listed on atb's referred site) are authorized and should not be considered collector's copies.... Everybody agree? -Ski There are also DCU subdued 1st MARDIV SSI out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_redcatcher Posted July 13, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 13, 2009 82nd Eng from the big red one wore the 1st USMC on there right sleeve, and were PROUD of it. the 54th Eng wore the 2nd Div USMC on the combat side also, how do I know ,,I am in the same kasserne as these guys (ok,,,1 ID is long gone.. Clothing sales even sells the patches! :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted July 13, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 13, 2009 Gents, please refrain from the term "ex-Marine", it is a term of negative connotation - and used by Marines when referring to someone who was discharged from active duty for less than honorable service to the Corps. We respectfully refer to our fellow Marines, with honorable service or retired as "former Marines" Thank you, s/f Darrell Once a Marine, always a trouble-maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted July 14, 2009 Oke, guys, Thanks for the input, but back to the 1st question. Is the left patch ok? Greetings - Antoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted July 14, 2009 Share #21 Posted July 14, 2009 Oke, guys, Thanks for the input, but back to the 1st question. Is the left patch ok? Greetings - Antoon I say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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