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752nd Tank Battalion Grouping

Started by wildcat123 , Jun 25 2009 11:02 AM

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#26 Jim Baker

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:30 PM

Are you sure one is not a theater made example. They are basically the same DUI right down to the motto.

#27 tredhed2

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:10 PM

I guess you'll have to buy the books. I don't copy material that is copyrighted. Here are the titles so you can get the correct ones:

Capistrano, Robert DI of the US Army (1939-46) Vol I Inf, Armor-Cav, and TD Units

Sawicki, James Tank Battalions of the US Army

Am sure there are other titles, but I like these.

Edited by tredhed2, 29 June 2009 - 08:11 PM.


#28 pac_bob

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 09:40 PM

Are you sure one is not a theater made example. They are basically the same DUI right down to the motto.



The "Fortis" DI with the rounded bottom is the postwar insignia of the 29th Tank Bn, which descended from the WW2 752nd Tank Bn. The wartime piece has a more pointed shield and was made in the US (in sterling) and in Italy, having the typical "horizontal U" pinback. Although most of the postwar pieces were made in the US, there are some German made pieces, including some made in the early 1950s with occupation pinbacks ("vertical U" fastener). The 752nd was inactivated at Trieste, Italy in 1947, redesignated the 29th in 1950 and activated at Fort Hood, and finally inactivated in 1957 in Bremerhaven.

Bob Capistrano

#29 Jim Baker

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:17 PM

Thanks Dave. I've got both books, the problem is I'm sitting on the side of a mountain on a lap top.

Bob,

Thanks for the very detailed reply. I'll check the two DUI's I have when I get home and send you a PM.

Thanks again!!

#30 Custermen

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 05:36 PM

Thanks for info on the DUI and unit history. I assumed the style of the shield was just a variation of the pin. My avitar shows a DUI for 328FA with a stylized shield that was an earlier version of the standard shield.

Steve

#31 Jim Baker

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 07:37 PM

Bob,

I lucked out. I have one of each.

Thanks again for the information.

#32 tredhed2

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 01:57 PM

I found Holt's website....

http://www.752ndtank.com/

#33 wildcat123

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:02 PM

Long overdue additional photos of the uniform. Unfortunately, I only have room to display the uniform and the yardlongs at this point. I have a new display case in the works... let me know what you think.

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#34 wildcat123

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:03 PM

...

there were noticeable holes in the uniform when it arrived where two ribbons had been removed (the three place bar was all that was present on the uniform). These ribbons were in the footlocker, so I assumed they came from the uniform. I know the order isn't correctly, but I'm sure they were on there before (probably good conduct only and WWII victory added post war).

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Edited by wildcat123, 06 August 2009 - 06:06 PM.


#35 wildcat123

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:03 PM

...

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#36 wildcat123

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:04 PM

...

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#37 OD MAN

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:10 PM

Plain freakin awesome...

#38 Jeeper704

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:04 AM

A great looking uniform.
Gotta love the cross-stitching.

Erwin

#39 Jim Baker

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 07:20 AM

This is really an excellent grouping. The center piece of any armor collection!! Thanks for sharing it. :thumbsup:


Dave,

Thanks for posting that web address! That is a great site.

#40 Jeeper704

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:07 AM

Apparently the site is up again.
It's full of useful information.

Erwin

#41 echo1

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 08:06 PM

Dear Sir, I am interested in this unit as it was my grandads. He has passed away but told me some great stories

 Do you have and unit photos? and what medals did his unit recieve as they were stolen when i was deployed

 

thanks Echo1

 

 



#42 echo1

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 08:18 PM

any web site still active for 752nd tank batallion current link not working



#43 752ndTank

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 01:07 PM

echo1, Bob Holt here.  I am the historian of the 752nd and used to run the 752nd website until I took it down a few years ago.  I have a ton of info, thousands of photos, and personnel records on this outfit.  I am still very active in researching the battalion.  New info is surfacing all the time.  PM me and I'd be happy to help. 



#44 Jumpin Jack

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 04:37 PM

You are fortunate to become the caretaker of a remarkable grouping.  While I do not specialize in armor units, I am fortunate to have a few groupings, 3rd AD, 10th AD to include his painted M-43 field jacket, another 10th AD, and 712th AB, all these men are from the Kansas City area as is a vast majority of my collection.  If you ever get to KC, give me a call, and come for a visit.  Jack Angolia



#45 gliderrider401

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 02:04 PM

Very nice!  My Aunt's Uncle was in the 752nd.  I have some of his items he brought back.

 

I'll be offering a MASSIVE armored grouping soon.  So much stuff in it I don't know where to begin...

 

Rich



#46 752ndTank

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 02:30 PM

Hey Rich......  If you have any questions about the 752 or if you need help ID'ing any of his 752 stuff I'd be happy to help.  My dad was in the 752 and I'm the historian of the unit and have a ton of info.  Would love to know his name, maybe you can PM me with that if you'd prefer not to mention on the forum.  I've tracked over 800 men from this battalion, but every now and then someone new turns up and I'd love to be able to update my records if that's the case.  Chances are good that I might even have some info on him.  He might have even known my dad, who knows?  :)


Edited by 752ndTank, 02 February 2015 - 02:31 PM.


#47 752ndTank

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 06:04 PM

Your DI depicted is that for the 29th Tank Bn. Both Capistrano and Sawicki indicate this is the correct approved design for the 752nd Tank Bn:

 

I'm Bob Holt, the historian of my dad's 752nd Tank Battalion.  I had always assumed that the rounded bottom and the pointed bottom were just two different variants from two different manufacturers, and that both types could have been worn by both the 752nd and the 29th.  But after reading this old thread and seeing Bob C and Dave's posts, and then looking at the only photo I have of a DI actually being worn on a 752 uniform, I think Sawicki and Bob C and Dave and Bob C are correct. 

 

I have thousands of photos of the 752 and hundreds of photos of 752 tankers in their dress uniforms, from both the war years and the postwar years.  In almost 30 years of researching this unit, I have only seen one photo that shows a 752 tanker wearing a DI, and it is the pointed-bottom version. I am attaching a low-res crop from a high res scan of the original studio portrait of a 752nd Tanker in the late postwar period in Italy, which I know was taken sometime in December 1946.  It is unmistakably the pointed bottom version.  And the 752 tab over the armored sleeve insignia validates it as a 752nd man.

 

In my 752 collection I also have a Zippo lighter from the 29th Tank Battalion.  It is inscribed "29th Tank Battalion, Baumholder Germany" on one side, and the other side has an enameled DI.  That DI is the rounded version, just like Sawicki shows for the 29th.  I also have a large cloth "pocket patch" from the 29th Tank Battalion.  While it is made of cotton and is not a DI, the embroidery also uses the rounded bottom design. 

 

So while these 3 items in my collection aren't definitive enough to establish a pattern, they are the only pieces of evidence I have and they certainly align with what Dave and Bob C were saying.  I have been told by an Italian collector that the rounded bottom was the "first" design used by the 752, and that several manufacturers produced it (Pacchiani & Barlacchi in Florence, Johnson in Milano, Bonora in Udine, and Penazzi in Gorizia).  These manufacturers also produced various 88th Infantry DIs, and eventually the 752 became organic to the 88th.  There was also some speculation that the 15th Tank Company, which was part of the TRUST forces in 1948-1954, also used this DI, since 15th Tank was formed from the 752nd.  I have yet to find any evidence to support any of these claims, but perhaps it is possible that the 752 or TRUST did in fact use the rounded bottom design from local manufacturers.  But so far the only hard evidence I've seen today seems to align with Sawicki and Bob Capistrano and Dave. 

 

I differ a bit with one aspect of Bob C's post.  While the 752 DI may have been designed during the war years, in reality it was not worn by any 752 wartime tankers, and does not seem to have appeared until sometime in 1946.  None of the wartime tankers I had ever spoken with had ever seen the DI, and most had never even seen the 752 tab for the sleeve insignia.  So I believe the 752nd used the pointed-bottom DI, but just not until well after the war had ended.  I just wouldn't refer to it as a wartime DI.

 

I hope this sparks some discussion, because this has always been a mystery to me and I've heard two different points of view.

 

Bob Holt

752nd Tank Battalion

Attached Images

  • DI & 752 CU 72dpi.jpg


#48 Jim Baker

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 02:38 PM

Hello Bob,

 

Good to see you back on.  I sent you a message.

 

Jim



#49 752ndTank

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:09 PM

Hey Jim,

 

Thanks for the "welcome back"!  Now that I'm into retirement I finally have the time to catch up on some 752nd stuff.  Just when I thought I found pretty much all there is to find, I'm making new discoveries about the 752 just about every day. 

 

Will shoot you an email to catch up.

 

Bob



#50 752ndTank

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 06:29 PM

I found Holt's website....
 

 

Just saw this old post and thought I'd let you know that my 752nd Tank Battalion has a new address:

 

http://www.752Tank.com

 

The 752nd was a highly decorated battalion that served in the MTO.  My site includes hundreds of photos, as well as technical, organizational, and historical information.  It also includes several original research pages regarding the development and use of the M1938 tanker helmet, the development and use of Rocket Tanks in the MTO, several different detailed battle accounts, and the restoration of an M5A1 tank that is currently in active US Army service.  The site is geared to appeal to historians, armor enthusiasts, modelers, and the vets themselves.  I hope you enjoy it!




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