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Tiger Stripes


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#1 Andrei

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:25 PM

Here we go ! My first topic !
This is a VNMC custom set that belonged to a 2nd LT of the Seawolves battalion.
This set has been tailored to look like an american jungle fatigues set.
I have the beret that goes with this set but I cant find the CDR with the pictures...

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  • Sungs01.JPG


#2 Andrei

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:36 PM

Some close ups of the insignias.

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  • Sungs03.JPG


#3 Andrei

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:40 PM

The pencil pocket and the VNMC SSI.

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  • Sungs05.JPG


#4 Andrei

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:46 PM

The trousers.

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  • Sungs09.JPG


#5 Andrei

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:47 PM

The last picture till I put my hand on the beret pictures.

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#6 HBT

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 10:22 AM

Andrei,
Thank you for sharing that very special uniform! Consider posting this uniform (and others) in the ongoing "Vietnam Uniforms" thread found in the Uniform Section of this forum.

---Chris

#7 Andrei

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 10:33 AM

Andrei,
Thank you for sharing that very special uniform! Consider posting this uniform (and others) in the ongoing "Vietnam Uniforms" thread found in the Uniform Section of this forum.

---Chris


Oi Chris !

Will do. As a newbie, I dont master all the navigation of this great forum.
Cheers,

Andrei

#8 cbuehler

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:35 AM

All,
Having recently aquired a few examples of tiger stripe uniforms, the question leads me to wonder just where and by whom were they made, and just how they were procured? I am aware that many were made by small tailor shops etc., but were they procured in the field on the local level or higher up? Also, did procurement of them cease once the ERDL camo became available? I suppose there is no definitive answer to these questions, but any insight would be appreciated! Thanks

CB

#9 Copran

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:08 AM

Hello,

As stated in the book Tiger Pattern de R Johnson, the Tiger Stripes were inspired from the French Indochina Lizzard camo (worn by almost French Airborne troops also other French Elite troops). During the war, depending the pattern, we have:

- Tiger Stripes made, tailored in Vietnam for Vietnamese Marines (material is poplin like, for all the VNMC 1st and 2nd pattern), I suspect that the 2nd VNMC pattern was also made in Korea since we have uniforms especially made for the US Marines Advisors ordered there. We can see QM stamps only on these patterns, the first issue was back in 1957 or 1958

All the following patterns are inspired from the VNMC patterns

- John wayne pattern and Advisors Sparse Pattern (Gold Pattern) were made in and tailored Japan since they have inspection tags and size tags with japanese names. Some contracts were ordered by CISO to supply indigenous troops at the beginning of the war. Almost all the Tiger Stripe Flight Suits were made in Japan too.

- Tadpole pattern was probably made and tailored in Japan, since the threads, the cut and buttons are identical to the previous patterns.

- Late war pattern was made in Korea and supplied to Vietnam market also to Cambodia, Laos. (some ROKs troopers also wear TS in Korea)

- Thai pattern is made in Thailand, the Large Pattern (in Poplin) was supplied to VN Marines corps at the end of the war, but tailored in Vietnam. The Thai Tadpole like pattern was made in tailored in Thailand, almost used by Air Force personel.

And almost all tailors shops in Vietnam and other Countries of SEA had material rolls of these patterns to make uniforms, tours jackets, bush jackets, bonnie hats... They also made copy of these patterns.

Tiger Stripe Product had never produced any uniforms during the war, their camo is a copy of John Wayne pattern, so they should not claim that is their pattented pattern. Every Rip Stop Tiger Stripe are post war, designed to make hunting clothes.

If you have Tiger Stripes uniforms, please share, I'm very interested to see this. I will post some of mine in the few next days,

Cheers

#10 vintageproductions

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:42 AM

Tiger Stripe Product had never produced any uniforms during the war, their camo is a copy of John Wayne pattern, so they should not claim that is their pattented pattern. Every Rip Stop Tiger Stripe are post war, designed to make hunting clothes.



Tiger Stripe Products started make their patterns in the mid-to late 80's. Have never heard them claim that they made items during the war. Also, I have to disagree with the above statement about all "rip-stop tiger stripe is post-war and made for hunting clothes". I believe it is the very last issue of Vietnamese Marine Corps tiger stripes, is done on a light-weight rip-stop, with very wide printed line patterns.

Unfortunately, too many collectors use Johnson's book as "bible" for tiger stripe collecting. While he does make it easier to identify the basic types, I have always wondered wher he came up with some of the names he ended up calling them. I remember in the mid to late 80's he was always running ads in the Shotgun News looking to buy tiger stripes. Then when he self-published his first book ( before Schiffer picked it up), he had these odd looking Death / Toe tags, that collectors were supposed to hand to the two or three dealers in California at the Great Western Show that were selling our Tiger Stripe heritage to the Japanese and how wrong that was. Yet, a couple of years later he set up at the Great Western and 90% of his sales were to Japanese buyers.
As per the original questions about issuing of Tiger Stripes. The only large scale issuing of tiger stripes was done by the Vietnamese Marine Corps. For the most part all other tiger stripes were privately purchased, or purchased and issued on a small command scale. There was no set issue to US troops. During Vietnam, tiger stripes were made in Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, Taiwan, Malaysia ( more based on a British camo, but still appears to look like tigers), & Philippines. I have personally never seen a war time tiger stripe made piece come out of Korea, but they did make a pattern later for collectors. The photos I have seen of ROK troops wearing tiger stripes, they are usually just wearing a local purchased piece in Vietnam. Also, like stated previoulsy, every Mom & Pop tailor store had their own bolts of material, and made countless variations of the uniforms, depending on the buyers preferences.

#11 Copran

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 12:35 PM

Hi Bob,

I didn't mean that Tiger Stripe Product made TS during the war, but I don't like the fact that they Copyrighted Original Vietnam Tiger Stripe like they claim on their website.

I affirm that Late war pattern was likely made in Korea since I saw some of the TS late war with a Korean QM in the website from a collector in Thailand (unfortunately closed now). The affirmation of the Rip Stop TS was made post war is based on the fact that I have a VNMC shirt in Thai Large pattern (with Stripes faded in Purple) in Poplin and the QM Stamp shows 12/74, I suppose R/S poplin will come in the very end of the war and there was no survivors with the collapse. The copy made from Vietnam today is almost in Ripstop and already faded in Purple. And of course all commercial Rip Stop Tiger stripe are post war.

The only thing I'm still trying to understand is why we have sometimes VNMC 1st pattern in commercial cut. (Like the ones that Johnson put on Ebay month ago that he tried to rise himself the price to 6200 usd while he bought it a year before for only 500 usd).

Cheers

#12 cbuehler

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 02:04 PM

Thanks much guys! The whole subject of tiger stripe is rather complex and there does not seem to be much "official" documentation etc. out there. I dont have Johnson's book as I have heard from other serious VN collectors much the same as Bob has related. I would be more interested in facts regarding when certain types came out and who was using them where etc., than if it is a "sparse john wayne" pattern. I doubt the orignal users were so fussy about the different patterns and probably mixed and matched different ones as they were available. Also, when did the use of Tigers tend to go out? Or did it? I always wondered if the erdl sort replaced them.

CB

#13 Spike

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 02:56 PM

I'm on the fence about Johnson, he's been cool with me but his arrogance and ego are just way too much for me and alot of others. As far as when tigers kinda faded out I can only say from my research of UDT/SEAL/LDNNs that around 70ish that they were pretty much wearing ERDLs though I have pics of SEALs that were there until the end of their involvement Dec. 71 wearing tigers but mostly ERDL.

#14 Tonomachi

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:38 PM

Since you folks are on the subject of Tiger Stripe uniforms I've attached scans of a fancy cut uniform I've always wondered about. I bought it for next to nothing in the early 1980s at Salvation Army. It is a size large and never worn as it is brand new. It is made of heavy cotton and by some Thai tailor. It has pleated pockets and the western style back panel with pants that are cut like fancy designer jeans. There is a fancy label in the collar and a white tag sewn along the waistline. Could this have been made during the Vietnam War in Thailand? Any ideas?

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  • TS.JPG
  • TS1.JPG
  • TS2.JPG


#15 Tonomachi

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:39 PM

More Photos

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  • TS3.JPG
  • TS4.JPG
  • TS5.JPG


#16 vintageproductions

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 06:14 PM

Dennis-The set looks like it could have been late in Vietnam or just after. That tailor is famous for making some really great USAF Party Suits. Could have been made as a off duty / party suit set for someone.

#17 Tonomachi

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 09:25 PM

Dennis-The set looks like it could have been late in Vietnam or just after. That tailor is famous for making some really great USAF Party Suits. Could have been made as a off duty / party suit set for someone.


Thanks Bob. It sort of looks like a Tiger Stripe leisure suit.

Dennis

#18 Copran

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:06 PM

Hello,

Dennis, your nice suit was made in Thai Tiger Stripe ( in Thai Tadpole pattern according to Johnson classification, I'm sorry to use this name but it will be easier to identify when you have a Johnson book). However the pattern is positionned vertical what was unusual. The material was used by Thai Armed Forces during the 70s and in the 80s they changed it to Ripstop Poplin material with much darker and more dense pattern.

Cheers

#19 gwb123

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 05:41 AM

Dennis-The set looks like it could have been late in Vietnam or just after. That tailor is famous for making some really great USAF Party Suits. Could have been made as a off duty / party suit set for someone.


This could have been a liesure suit or party suit, but it could have been made for actual use as well. As noted, this material was actually used for Thai Army uniforms made for field use. While we are calling it a "liesure suit" keep on mind the pattern also looks like some of the old "bush jackets" worn by the Brits. It could also have been made as a hunting outfit as well, with someone intending to wear it back in the states.

Most party suits had added patches, embroidered names, etc. I have seen one or two that had nothing on them, but to me that is more the exception than the rule. They tended to be very garish items.

USAF party suits tended to be made like a flight suit, but I know for a fact that two piece party suits were also made.

As Copran writes the vertical orientation of the Tiger Stripe pattern is less common, but I have seen actual fully badged Thai Army uniforms done this way.

This is a mystery item and it would be interesting to see what else turns up on it. The fact that it is mint condition with no sign of wear might rank it as one of those things that looked cool at the time the owner ordered it and had it made, but then never had the nerve or desire to wear!

#20 Copran

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 12:04 PM

Hello,

Here are some pics of one Vertical Tiger Stripe pattern that I had the opportunity to examine from a fellow french collectors. This pattern is probably a tailor copy that was never published in the Johnson book. It was made in thick cotton material.

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  • Vrti1.JPG


#21 Copran

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 12:06 PM

The pants

i ll be glad to see other exotic tiger stripe pattern or cut from you all. Thanks for sharing

Cheers

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  • Vrti2.JPG


#22 Copran

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:06 PM

More Photos


Hello,

The shirt with the same TS pattern but positionned horizontally like other Tiger Stripe. I purchased it from an USAF vet.

Cheers

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  • Thai.jpg


#23 PATCHRAT

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:34 PM

I found this shirt in a Goodwill years ago. hope you all enjoy it

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  • ts_001.jpg
  • ts_002.jpg


#24 USMCRECON

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 02:10 PM

Hello,

The shirt with the same TS pattern but positionned horizontally like other Tiger Stripe. I purchased it from an USAF vet.

Cheers


I'm sure this is not of the sort but the pattern/color looks much like the stuff Mitch werBell's "Quartermasters" used to sell by catalog back in the early 1980s. I got a shirt/jacket and trousers from him back then and the pattern/color/material was an almost identical dark TS design to this one and was styled much like the standard jungle utilities. It was not rip-stop but a heavier material, as this one appears to be and I don't recall any particular lables in mine. After a while I relegated it to paintball attire until it finally wore out.

Edited by USMCRECON, 10 October 2007 - 02:15 PM.


#25 gwb123

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 05:47 PM

Hello,

The shirt with the same TS pattern but positionned horizontally like other Tiger Stripe. I purchased it from an USAF vet.

Cheers


Just to clarify... I wasn't trying to say that ALL Thai Tiger Stripe was done with vertical stripes... just that there were some examples out there that had actually been worn that way. The horizontal version is a nice example.

To add to the discussion, here's a little oddity I once owned... after the war there was apparently plenty of Tiger Stripe material left in Vietnam.

This is a post war made jacket that is cut in a pattern similar to PAVN/ NVA patterns. It is a little hard to see but it features a wide waist band and two pleated chest pockets. It is cut short to the midriff, like an Ike jacket. This example was not fully finished across the bottom, and may have been a shop reject. This was imported to the US in the mid-1990's.

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  • Tiger_Stripe_NVA_small.JPG



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