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Great 40/8 piece


gsmilligan
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gsmilligan

I have only 1 40/8 piece in my collection, but I'd have to try hard to do better, I think.

This piece was in a grouping I bought from a very reputable dealer in GA ID'd to BG Edward "Ned" Olmsted of the 27th "New York" Division in WWI. BG Olmsted was the Assistant Chief of Staff/G-1 for the division, serving under MG John F. O'ryan during the Great War.

Sometime this week I'll post the 27th Division Association pieces in my collection, many of which are also ID'd to BG Olmsted.

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(This post was edited at the request of gsmilligan to correct mispellings of BG Ned Olmsted's last name.)

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That's a nice piece. Is that a maker's mark on the reverse of the planchet at the bottom? If so, can you make it out?

Pete

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KevinBeyer

I have to concur that this is a great piece. It is hard to top eight bars!

 

Thanks for sharing this with us.

 

Kevin

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gsmilligan
That's a nice piece. Is that a maker's mark on the reverse of the planchet at the bottom? If so, can you make it out?

Pete

 

Marks are the same top and bottom. As follows:

 

I.S.W.U

NO (diamond) 10

UNION MADE

 

(Had to dig out a geologist's loupe for this one!)

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Marks are the same top and bottom. As follows:

 

I.S.W.U

NO (diamond) 10

UNION MADE

 

(Had to dig out a geologist's loupe for this one!)

 

Thanks for digging out your geologist's loupe! I wonder if I.S.W.U. is actually I.J.W.U., this stands for the International Jewelry Workers Union, and they put that logo on emblems, buttons, and badges made by a union shop.

Thans again,

Pete

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gsmilligan
Thanks for digging out your geologist's loupe! I wonder if I.S.W.U. is actually I.J.W.U., this stands for the International Jewelry Workers Union, and they put that logo on emblems, buttons, and badges made by a union shop.

Thans again,

Pete

 

Yes, right you are, I.J.W.U.

 

If I hold it tilted to the left, I'd give you $10 if it wasn't an S. But looking at it again with a J in my mind, that's sure what it is. Thanks!

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Johan Willaert

OK, so I know what a 40&8 is, but what's with the medal/insignia???

 

Who was eligible for it? When was it awarded? Etc.....

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gsmilligan
OK, so I know what a 40&8 is, but what's with the medal/insignia???

 

Who was eligible for it? When was it awarded? Etc.....

 

Well, I hope an expert will chime in on this one. I think the medal and ribbon are the basic membership ribbon, I see them quite frequently without bars.

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  • 1 month later...

La Societe des 40 Hommes et 8 Chevaux

 

Formed in 1920, the 40&8 was a fun and honor society for American Legionnaires. Titles for officers in the society are taken from French railroad workers and officials. The local unit, the Volture (a car, cart, coach, carriage), is limited to one per county (with a few exceptions) and headed by the Chef de Gare (station master or Commander). The department or state organization, Grande (large, tall, great, big) Volture, is headed by the Grande Chef de Gare (great station master or Dept. Commander). The national body is called the Volture Nationale and lead by the Chef de Chemin de Fer (railroad president or Nat'l Commander).

 

The basic membership badge awarded to a newly iniated member by the local unit has the standard rectangular pendent with a roalroad boxcar containing a soldier and a horse, while a second soldier look on, suspended by a light blue (or French blue) ribbon. The addition of the blue enamel Voyageur Militaire (military traveler or passenger) bar must have been a later addition in the society's history. It is also assumed, but not proven, that early in the society history membership badges were numbered. This is a common practice in many organizations when first starting, but discontinued when recording or tracking the numbers becomes too difficult for the organization. The first illustration shows two versions of one type of numbering system. A third style badge with large lumbers only is known to exist, but I have not acquired an example of this Style.

 

The second illustration shows some standard membership badges with variations in ribbon color and reverses. The Jewelers Union mark seems the most common. The 1920s catalog called this an"issue badge", while the current catalog labes this an "issue marching badge".

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An undated catalog, but believed to be from the 1920s, lists individual badges for officers of local, dept. and national bodies. The badge consists of the standard rectangular pendent. A top suspension bar contains the office title with a red ribbon connecting the bar and pendent for local units; a white ribbon is used for Dept. and a yellow ribbon for national.

 

The third illustration shows two local unit badges as defined by the red ribbon. The black and white catalog does not specify if title bars follow the ribbon color format. It is assumed, but not proven, that all title bars at this time were dark blue enamel where the words Grande and National in the title world indicate Dept. and Nat'l titles.

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It is also assumed, but not proven, that the individual office title badge was abondoned in the late 1920s or early 1930s--because of their current relative rarity--and replaced by the more common ribbon title bar as an economic adjustment. These ribbon title bars assume the role of present and past office titles. Local office titles have Red enamel; Dept. office titles have White enamel (and usually the word Grand) and National office titles have Yellow enamel (and usually the word National). I do not know how many titles have appeared or disappeared over the years. The following titles are most fimiliar to me:

 

Amonier.........................Chaplain

Avocat...........................Judge Advocate, lawer, legal aid officer

 

Chef de Gare.................Station Master or Commander

Chef de train..................Train Master or Vice Commander

Cheminot.......................Executive Committee

Commissaire Intendant...Treasure or Finance Officer

Commis Voyageur..........Property man, commerical traveler

Conducteur....................Master of Ceremonies

Correspondant...............Secretary or Adjutant

 

Director of Carville Star...The Carville Star is a patient publication at the United States Public Health Service Hospital in Carville, Louisiana. It relates research, treatment and cure of Hansen's desease. The Dept. Director helps with donor funding of the publication getting the Star into 109 foreign countries as well as U.S. hospitals, libraries, etc.

Drapeau........................Flag Bearer

 

Grand...........................Used with masculine noun

Grande.........................Used with feminine noun

Grands.........................Used with masculine plural noun

Grandes.......................Used with feminine plural noun

Garde de la Port............Door Guard, Inside Guard, Sgt-at-Arms

Garde de Prisonnier.......Prisoners Guard (escorts new members during the initiation ceremony know as a WRECK)

 

Historien.......................Historian

 

Lampiste.......................Lamp man or Outside Guard

L'Editeur........................Editor of publications and public relations

 

Medcin..........................Doctor or Physician

 

Passe............................Past, previous; usually found at end of title

 

Organizer......................Unknown, but assumed to be someone who organizes activities, events, meetings, etc.

 

Publiciste........................Public Relations (but no publications to edit)

 

Ritual Team....................Group that conducts ceremonies and rituals

 

Sous..............................Assistant, Vice; usually found at beginning of title

 

Wrecking Crew...............Group that initiates new members

 

A more elaborate membership badge with a top bar is available to the membership presently called a "special issue marching badge." Illustration four shows two such badges with a different emblem in the center of the top bar. Note that the badge on the right has the title bars arranged with the Commander bar at the top and the membership bar at the bottom. This arrangement seems to be the minority positioning of bars. Most badges I have seen have the introductory local unit offices at top ahd higher offices toward the bottom.

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Illustration five shows both special issue and issue membership badges in Sterling Silver. The word Sterling is on the reverse bottom of the badge in very tiny letters. Do not know when or how long such badges were available.

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Illustration six shows a typical special issue badge of a member who held local and dept. offices. Note the downward ascending order of the bars. This is the most common arrangement I have seen for bar positioning. The Director Carville Star bar contains the word Grand indicating a Dept. office. It appears yellow in the photo probably due to age. Note also the White, but dirty, ribbon. This is the correct ribbon for a member who held dept. office. Members who hold any National office are to use yellow ribbon, but this practice is seldom followed.

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Illustration seven is a typical special issue membership badge of a member who held local, dept, and national offices. It too has a downward ascending order of office titles. It is on a blue ribbon instead of the recommended yellow ribbon for holding any national office. Maybe the blue ribbon presents the bars better to a viewer's eye than the recommended colors. This is the largest badge I possess, but not the largest badge I have seen.

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The society still supplies badges to its membership. They are sent in plastic bags marked Made in Taiwan ROC. Although some quality is lost in medal detail and ribbon heftiness, the cost is the lowest of most societies operating today. (For example, the special issue badge was $5 while the regular issue badge was $3.) Illustration eight has present 'special issue','issue' and 'miniature' badges. Mini badges have been issued for some time, but do not have mini-title bars (or I have never seen one with title bars). The back surface of current issue badges are plain; there is no mfg. marks.

 

Illustration nine is present issue Past Dept. and past local unit Commander's badges.

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Frederick,

 

Merci beaucoup! Great information, and terrific posts.

 

So I translate:

 

IMG_0631_2.jpg

 

With "Voiture Activities Directeur" not on your list, but google and guessing suggests it is some kind of activites liason between posts/outside world.

 

Interesting things about this piece: BG Olmsted held Dept (most likely New York) offices, but wore a blue ribbon instead of white and wore his badges in reverse order, neither of which is particularly unusual according to your informative posts.

 

Thanks again!

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With "Voiture Activities Directeur" not on your list, but google and guessing suggests it is some kind of activites liason between posts/outside world.

 

Ah, now I see it on one of your badges. Department Activities Director. I plead information overload.

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  • 5 years later...
5thwingmarty

I picked up this today at an antique mall. The medal seamed familiar and so I looked back and found this old thread. Unfortunately the ribbon is pretty much gone. I'm not sure if the hat was from the organization or if this was just some cap it was put on. The cap was marked as being an "early ~1930's European military cap".

 

Marty

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