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Some Philippine Khaki


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#1 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:18 PM

All,
Please forgive my very first attempt to post photos! This is an almost dark green cotton coat to the 31st Infantry. (Gil Sannow please note and comment!). It has the earlier US disc and 31 inf. A disc as well as rimless buttons. The color is most unusual and I dont know if the pics show it well enough. It is the darkest greenish color I have ever seen on a US Army cotton coat of the time. Since I cannot figure out how to reduce the size of the attachment, I will post a close up of the collar on a seperate post?

CB

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#2 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:23 PM

A pic of the collar. All buttons are held on by thin brass split rings. Note that the sewing was done in light khaki colored thread eliminating the possibility of the coat having been dyed. I can only presume this coat dates from the period circa 1916 when the 31st (Manila's own) aka "Thirsty First" was raised.

CB

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#3 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:32 PM

Next up is a m1926 coat to the 92nd Coast Artillery (Philippine Scouts). This example still has its Manila makers label in the collar unlike the previously posted coat which has no label. The color is more of a "true" khaki. The SSI is felt on felt.

CB

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#4 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:33 PM

A close up of the 92nd collar.

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#5 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:40 PM

Next I have a Quartermaster Corps coat to a Captain. Again, this one has the same Ning tailors label. This coat would date to the early 20's as it still has the bronze buttons and insignia. The high collar coats were worn into the later 20's with the addition of gilt buttons and insignia. I have a copy of the 1927 infantry journal (Philippine number) and at that time all but a few had transitioned to the open roll collar. The shade of khaki on this coat is sort of a pea green.

CB

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#6 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:42 PM

A close up of the collar.

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#7 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:58 PM

Next up is a m1926 uniform of a 1st Lt. of the 31st Infantry. This has a very special sleeveless "shirt" for wear underneath. ( I have the breeches to this and 2 of the other pictured uniforms). The color is again a true khaki. The collar insignia is center screwback type and somewhat smaller than the 1930's or 40's type. The DI's are by Crispulo Zamora and the SSI is 2 piece twill. Note the Ft. McKinley post tailors label. This coat would date to the late 20's until the early 30's or so (I cant remember off hand the exact date) when the 31st was transfered to from the Philippine Division to the Philippine Department and used that SSI until the beginning of the war. Again, as on all of these coats, the buttons are attached by brass or plated split rings for easy removal when laundered. These uniforms would have to be laundered and re starched after only one wearing. The heat and humidity would make them soaking wet after every parade!

CB

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#8 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 07:59 PM

More of the same.

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#9 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 08:01 PM

The special sleevless shirt.

CB

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#10 cbuehler

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 08:16 PM

And last up is a m26 coat to the 12th Signal Regt. (Philippine Scouts). This example is again rather pea green in shade as opposed to a true khaki. The SSI is felt on felt. This coat would date to from the 1930's up to the beginning of the war.
All the uniforms I have posted here vary in shade from very slight to pronounced.
Needless to say, uniforms and material from our colonial period in the Philippines are very rare some of these examples (yikes, I have a few more!) are likely to be the only ones many of you will ever see. Most of them I have been able to obtain in PI through contacts there, but it has been VERY difficult to say the least. I have not been able to verify the identity of the 31st Lt. uniform and was given 2 different possible names. The enlisted ones are not known.

CB

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#11 rayg

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 02:24 AM

What a wonderful collection of uniforms from the Philippine Scouts and a unique part of our countries history. Ray

#12 Allan H.

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 05:21 AM

CB,
I first have to say congratulations and thanks for sharing these rare uniforms. You are right that they are true rarities. Now to see a Tubau!
It is rather interesting to see the definite color differences in the "khaki" material. It reminds me a lot of the distinct color differences in WWII jump jackets. These colors are what drive reenactment suppliers like Rollin Curtis or "At The Front" up a tree when dealing with customers wanting a true "khaki" color.
You see similar color variation on World War I uniforms.
Allan

#13 Gil Sanow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 07:15 AM

CB,
I first have to say congratulations and thanks for sharing these rare uniforms. You are right that they are true rarities. Now to see a Tubau!
It is rather interesting to see the definite color differences in the "khaki" material. It reminds me a lot of the distinct color differences in WWII jump jackets. These colors are what drive reenactment suppliers like Rollin Curtis or "At The Front" up a tree when dealing with customers wanting a true "khaki" color.
You see similar color variation on World War I uniforms.
Allan


Very nice examples!

Take a look at the first drab cotton coat. Do I see rimless buttons there? If so, they are pre-1912. Also, as far as the color goes, look at the backside of the fabric -- closely under magnification. Is it woven of brown and green thread? If so, it is "thread-dyed" material -- they used both thread dyed and piece dyed then.

Now, on the m1926's -- take a look at the belt supports. Are they hooks? Or are they loops with a button on top? The latter are quite common for PI made coats - I have had examples of both EM's and officer's this way. I will post a PI-made MG's coat when I take the pix.

His has a "dickey" -- shirt front too.

#14 cbuehler

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 07:30 AM

Thanks guys,
Gil, I will look at the first coat closer when I get home. The inside of the fabric as you can just see in the photos is even more green in color. The slight fraying around the collar shows a greener inner weave also. Rimless buttons were still in use by some into the 1920's. I have seen other uniforms with them from this late time period. All of my m1926 uniforms, except the last 12th Sig.(which has sewn in brass hooks), have cloth belt loops.
I will try to post some more Philippine stuff later.
BTW, the sharpshooters badge on the first coat posted and on the 92nd CA are not original to them. I added them to "dress them up" a bit. The one on the 31st Lt. is supposedly original to it as are the ribbon bars of the QMC capt. who's bars are Philippine made as well.

CB

#15 SARGE

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 08:08 AM

CB,

Wonderful examples of Philippine khaki coats! Thanks for showing them and the color variations.

Do you have any Philippine Constabulary uniforms to share?

#16 Gil Sanow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 08:46 AM

Thanks guys,
Gil, I will look at the first coat closer when I get home. The inside of the fabric as you can just see in the photos is even more green in color. The slight fraying around the collar shows a greener inner weave also. Rimless buttons were still in use by some into the 1920's. I have seen other uniforms with them from this late time period. All of my m1926 uniforms, except the last 12th Sig.(which has sewn in brass hooks), have cloth belt loops.
I will try to post some more Philippine stuff later.
BTW, the sharpshooters badge on the first coat posted and on the 92nd CA are not original to them. I added them to "dress them up" a bit. The one on the 31st Lt. is supposedly original to it as are the ribbon bars of the QMC capt. who's bars are Philippine made as well.

CB


Well, the greeninsh fraying tells me it is thread dyed, but check anyhow. I am not sure we could photo it though. Can you try?

#17 Gil Sanow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 09:12 AM

Well, the greeninsh fraying tells me it is thread dyed, but check anyhow. I am not sure we could photo it though. Can you try?


Here is MG Stanley Ford's PI-made M1926 khaki coat, with another dickey. I bought this, stripped, from George Marinos in Gettysburg about 20 years ago -- for $10.00! I found Ford's name in it when I went to put on the buttons. I researched Ford, who retired as LTG in '40, and restored his insignia. I should put it in with "my favorites" but it fits here too.

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Edited by Gil Sanow, 10 April 2007 - 09:17 AM.


#18 Gil Sanow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 09:20 AM

Here is MG Stanley Ford's PI-made M1926 khaki coat, with another dickey. I bought this, stripped, from George Marinos in Gettysburg about 20 years ago -- for $10.00! I found Ford's name in it when I went to put on the buttons. I researched Ford, who retired as LTG in '40, and restored his insignia. I should put it in with "my favorites" but it fits here too.


Ford commanded the 1st ID after his return from the PI. The division typically wore patches with backgound matching the coat color. I have even seen it oin blue for an EM's dress blue of the period.

Here is a detail shot of the button-down belt loop. I have never seen one of these on a NON-PI-made coat!

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#19 Bob Hudson

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 09:29 AM

Since I cannot figure out how to reduce the size of the attachment, I will post a close up of the collar on a seperate post?
CB

Here's some info on photo re-sizing
photos: http://www.usmilitar...php?showtopic=7

#20 cbuehler

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 10:55 AM

Hi Gil, an outstanding uniform you have there! It has the same cloth belt loops that you can see in pic of my coat. Does Ford's coat have the same makers label? Now that people know of some of the features typical of PI made uniforms, perhaps more will come out. I will try to post a pic of a Philippine pattern khaki officers shirt.
BTW, lest some out there become confused with the term "coat", this is actually the proper term for US military "tunics" which was never a term used here. Overcoat is the term for outerwear.
From what I have been able to determine, the US military used a mix of stateside made items and locally procured ones all together. Officers would of course have to purchase several uniforms and they were cheaper to aquire in PI than to purchase them in the states and bring them over. While flannel shirts were often used in the field in mountain areas or provinces during the cooler season, all other wool uniforms were absent in PI and left back in the states.

CB

#21 Gil Sanow

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 03:51 PM

Hi Gil, an outstanding uniform you have there! It has the same cloth belt loops that you can see in pic of my coat. Does Ford's coat have the same makers label? Now that people know of some of the features typical of PI made uniforms, perhaps more will come out. I will try to post a pic of a Philippine pattern khaki officers shirt.
BTW, lest some out there become confused with the term "coat", this is actually the proper term for US military "tunics" which was never a term used here. Overcoat is the term for outerwear.
From what I have been able to determine, the US military used a mix of stateside made items and locally procured ones all together. Officers would of course have to purchase several uniforms and they were cheaper to aquire in PI than to purchase them in the states and bring them over. While flannel shirts were often used in the field in mountain areas or provinces during the cooler season, all other wool uniforms were absent in PI and left back in the states.

CB


I had missed your belt loop. Sorry. Still, it is worth a close-up.

I agree about the term "coat" -- I absolutely detest the term "tunic" -- I think the origin is German or Brit.

I never found a label in Ford's coat, though I think there is one on the dickey.

The amazing thing is that I would have given $10 for the dickey alone. I was amazed to get coat and dickey for that price.

#22 cbuehler

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 07:58 PM

Hi Gil,
I was able to examine closely the first coat posted (31st A Co.) and the threads of the inside are indeed green and brown intertwined. This confirms that it is indeed thread dyed.
Thanks!

CB

#23 suum cuique

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 06:54 AM

CB:

I found your thread on Philippine khaki very interesting and impressive. I have had an officer's high-collar coat with a Manila tailors label (same as yours) with no insignia. What was interesting to me is the additional "boxed" pleats above the pockets typically reserved for marine officers and the machined button holes for the screw-back collar insignia. Although officer's items were private purchase and perhaps a little more latitude on modifying the regulations, is there anything that you see that would indicate when the jacket was made (obviously prior to the late 20s)? I was planning on putting rimless buttons and bronze officer insignia on the coat. I was told that early Philppine-made insignia was screw-back. Is there a time frame when the bronze screw-back insigina was produced and used, and what would be correct for the jacket?

Dave
 

DEAD LINK 1/29/15

doinworkinvans


Edited by doinworkinvans, 29 January 2015 - 06:54 PM.


#24 Gil Sanow

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 09:40 AM

There apparently were several different types of attachments used on PI made coats -- other than pinbacks or screw backs. These may include some sort of button pack that fit through the grommeted slit seen here -- or I think there was also a"butterfly" type with a pair of hinged wings that fit through and opened up (these may have had springs). These latter types are quite rare. The whole idea of course was to attach the insignia securely and close to the material so there would be no snagging.

I sure wish I had these to show, but I will bet if others do, they will be from PI based units.

G

#25 cbuehler

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 11:32 AM

Nice coat! I have one by the same Ning tailors just like it, but without the unique Philippine insignia "slots" in the collar.
These slots are apparently only seen on Philippine made uniforms of the late teens and early 20's. I have a couple examples of insignia with this butterfly type folding attachment. They were used not just by the Army, but on Philippine Constabulary uniforms as well. These type of insignia are very rare and I assure you that you will probably never find a complete set for the collars of your coat. Of course when officers rotated back to the states, they still wore these uniforms with the common pin back insignia of their new unit, so you can use those as well. I have a white dress high collar coat that had the slots carefully stitched closed and the new insignia pinned over them.
So anyway, your coat is most likely early 1930's and could be used with the bronze buttons and insignia or the gilt insignia as worn from 1924 to 27. The buttons of course will need the small, usually brass at this time, split rings for attachment.

CB


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