Confused - Are these NS Meyer Wings Good, or Not?

[Military-Memorabilia]

I was reading the pinned thread, Examples of Fake Fantasy & Reproduction Wings, and see that the basic concensus was that a NS Meyer wing with only the NS Meyer Shield without the name and address are to be considered cast copies. Then I looked at the recommended site, Aviation Wings and Badges of World War II, and lo and behold, the two Senior Service Pilot Wings by NS Meyer (that are supposed to be original) have only a NS Meyer Logo (and the Sterling Stamp) on the rear. So where do I stand - are these wings good, or bad? I have marked the location of the Meyer's Mark with a "M", and the Sterling Stamp with a "S"

 

Glider Pilot - Raised Meyer Logo, Stamped STERLING

 

Liasion Pilot - Raised Meyer Logo, Stamped STERLING

 

Service Pilot - Raised Meyer Logo, Stamped STERLING

 

Technical Observer - Raised Meyer Logo, Stamped STERLING twice

 

Raised Meyer Logo, Stamped STERLING

[pfrost]

NS Meyers are always a land mine. But first, let me correct something. The problem with NS Meyer is primarily because the company started making restrikes of their wings from the original dies. So, typically, the NS Meyer wings aren't cast (although you do periodically see cast NS Meyer wings), but are actually die struck.

 

The most common restrikes were of the most rare wings. Thus, the vast VAST majority of NS Meyer airship, balloon, and TO wings are of the NS Meyer restrike variety. I would almost never EVER touch one of those wings, unless they came right off the chest of the original pilot (and even then, I would still have doubts) They also restruck the rarer "alphabet" wings (liaison, glider and service pilot wings). Some of these restrikes had a kind of black lacquer on the back.

 

Making it even worse, NS Meyers actually hallmarked their wings all sorts of different ways. I don't think that anyone can really say for certain that any one way of marking wings (with the shield, the shield and address, excised, incised, sterling, non-sterling). They did it all sorts of ways, even upside down and mirror images of each other.

 

The one (more or less) 100% characteristic of the restrikes was the use of a pin that opened up more than about 90 degrees, and that was "fixed" in some of the later restrikes.

 

Over all, there are no real rules to NS Meyers, beyond the pin. Furthermore, no matter what one "expert" says, another "expert" will have slightly different ideas or theories.

 

Some tips: If you insist on buying a N.S. Meyer wing, look at the later USAF versions (navigator, aircrew) or the more common WWII versions (aircrew). These wings will be marked with a 9M or 22M in a shield, depending on vintage. To my knowledge, no one is restriking those wings. Compare those wings to the suspected WWII vintage wings to get a better idea of what to look out for in the real ones.

 

Always assume that no matter what, an NS Meyer wing will always have some doubt associated with it, ESPECIALLY if it is one of the lighter than air or TO wings.

 

Always expect that an NS Meyer wing will sell for slightly less because of that problem.

 

Here are some of my wings that I feel are vintage. You can get an idea of the variety of markings on the back.

[pfrost]

some more

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some more

[pfrost]

some more

[bschwartz]

Well as the owner of Aviation Wings and Badges of WW2 I have to chime in here. The Senior Service Pilot wings on my site do indeed only have the raised Meyer shield. They are, however, not cast pieces. Now are they WW2 pieces? To tell you the truth I can't say one way or another. I can say that they are not the Fox Militaria restrikes nor any other restrike for that matter. I can also tell you that I've seen quite a few WW2 era Meyer wings with only the shield. These are pieces that were directly from the veteran and included wartime photos of them wearing the badge. Yes, I understand that in wartime photos you can't see the back of the badge so how can I say it's the same badge but I'm going to give the 80 something year old guy the benefit of the doubt that he's not putting one over on me. Especially when they weren't offered for sale and were being handed down to the family. I just got to see them cause I was the crazy collector guy interested in WW2. The subject of Meyer hallmarks is a long and storied one and there is quite a bit of good information on this forum regarding them. Most people agree that the raised Meyer, New York with the shield is a good sign of a WW2 piece and I agree. But, as I mentioned above, I've also seen badges with just the shield that I know are WW2 pieces. All that being said, the wings you posted do appear to be restrikes. There's a lot of talk about the pin that opens to 180 degrees and whether that is a good sign or not. In my experience that has never been a good sign on a Meyer wing. The coloring of some of the wings and the finish of them also seems wrong. I'll be interested to hear what others have to say.

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

Ha! Patrick beat me to it while I was typing up my reply.

[pfrost]

a couple of WWII vintage NS Meyer jump wings. One with a jump star.

 

Incised hallmark.

[bschwartz]

And here's one that throws the rules out. This is a British Fleet Air Arm pilot mess dress wing made by Meyer during the war. It's marked simply with the words NS Meyer Inc New York incised and no shield AND it has a pin that opens more than 90 degrees. However this is an authentic WW2 era piece that I acquired from Warren Carroll.

 

 

[none]

Meyer was a sales company and not a manufacturer. They sub-contracted out the manufacture of insignia to various companies. Hence the wide range of hallmarks etc.

[FrankEaton01]

This may be a bit off-topic, but are there Meyer restrikes of Navy wings? It seems like most of the Meyer discussions focus primarily on AAF wings. Likewise, I seldom see Meyer Navy wings for sale (aviator, observer, air crew, etc.), compared to the dozens of Meyer AAF wings on eBay at any given time.

[teufelhunde.ret]

Meyer was a sales company and not a manufacturer. They sub-contracted out the manufacture of insignia to various companies. Hence the wide range of hallmarks etc.

 

N.S. Meyer started operations in 1868 and were bought out by Vanguard in 2000 following their legal problems... your saying during the 130 years of their existence they never made their own insignia?

[pfrost]

This may be a bit off-topic, but are there Meyer restrikes of Navy wings? It seems like most of the Meyer discussions focus primarily on AAF wings. Likewise, I seldom see Meyer Navy wings for sale (aviator, observer, air crew, etc.), compared to the dozens of Meyer AAF wings on eBay at any given time.

 

Yes, NS Meyer restrikes of USN wings do exist. Interestingly, I think that the vintage WWII USN wings by Meyer are actually rather rare (much rarer than the AMICO and Balfour wings), BUT they are significantly less valuable than the more common makers.

 

Patrick

[none]

That is why you have so many different designs and styles of Meyer. They just bought from whoever was making the items and had their hallmark put on the item. Meyer was a sales company.

 

For example today Vanguard is subcontracting to have some of its insignia made. Yet everything is hallmarked V-21

 

Joe

[BROBS]

bringing this one back up..

this is some good info.

[ComputerChris]

I've got two wings here. Both marked meyer. Real?

 

 

[bschwartz]

I would say yes, they're both good Meyers.

[Kropotkin]

Pre/early WW2 silver-plated brass Meyer wings are always a good bet too. I've seen these with incised shields too.

[jeff41st]

Hope i am not deviating too far off topic, but does anyone know if Meyer made re-strikes of their 2-inch wings as well as their 3-inch wings? I don't recall seeing any examples 2-inch re-strikes, but i am relatively new to wing collecting.

 

If anyone has examples of 2-inch re-strikes would you mind posting some examples?

 

Thanks

Jeff

[pfrost]

To my knowledge they didn't restrick the 2 inch wings but you never want to say never.

 

P