German made patches

[phillock]

close up reverse

close up of 11th Abn this could be a US manufacture variation but im not sure it has a grey medium

[phillock]

close up of 11th Abn this could be a US manufacture variation but im not sure it has a grey medium

11th Abn reverse note construction similar to yours

[Proud Kraut]

Phill,

 

95th and (very nice!) 9th "Salerno Buter Cookie": German mades.

8th Corps, hm, looks not like one of my GM, :think: rather U.S. made?

I can't help it, your 11th Abn Div also looks like an U.S. made to me.

 

Lars

[PATCHRAT]

Lars,

 

 

as you requested here is the Desert Subdued Berlin Bde. I found this in late '91 at Ft Polk, LA at the tailor shop. I have not seen another but I am sure there must be more out there, It is made the same way as the typical Woodland subdued version. Anyone have any other German made Desert Subdued SSI?

[USARV72]

 

Pardon the delay, close up of front and rear .

Thanks,

Dave

[X_redcatcher]

Lars,

as you requested here is the Desert Subdued Berlin Bde. I found this in late '91 at Ft Polk, LA at the tailor shop. I have not seen another but I am sure there must be more out there, It is made the same way as the typical Woodland subdued version. Anyone have any other German made Desert Subdued SSI?

 

 

I have only seen one other just like this, it was on Ebay.de about a year ago and went for almost 25€ , so you have a nice one.

[Proud Kraut]

Lars,

as you requested here is the Desert Subdued Berlin Bde. I found this in late '91 at Ft Polk, LA at the tailor shop. I have not seen another but I am sure there must be more out there, It is made the same way as the typical Woodland subdued version. Anyone have any other German made Desert Subdued SSI?

 

 

I ransacked my brains over where have I seen one (or more) in the www. but have had no luck with finding them. By all means a nice patch!!!

 

Lars

[Constabulary]

Last weekend I got a big punch of patches in a trade.

Well, I´m not that much a patch collector so I wonder if there are all German made and if it is possible to date them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Proud Kraut]

Great patches. German mades, except the far right Berlin patch (U.S. made). I'm not quiet sure about the far left Berlin patch. I guess, also German made.

 

If you ever want to part of some of those, let me know!

 

Lars

[Proud Kraut]

 

Pardon the delay, close up of front and rear .

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

Dave,

 

I'm sorry, I can't tell it for sure. The back pic is a little blurry; I believe GM.

[Constabulary]

I´m always open for an offer.

I´m always looking for VN era subdued on twill sleeve ranks and SSI, 1st Infantry Div. (18th Infantry) and Constabulary related items and insignia.

 

Ckeck out the other patches I got last weekend:

 

EDIT - seems you already found the Threads

[USARV72]

Dave,

 

I'm sorry, I can't tell it for sure. The back pic is a little blurry; I believe GM.

 

 

 

Lars,

Thank you. Sorry for the blurry pic, need a camera stand.

3rd ID patch came in a plastic bag of 8 other WWII ETO SSIs purchased in an antique shop, looks to be "Theater Made".

Dave

[luft]

I dig up this topic for show my last german made patch.

 

It's a BRO 1st Inf Div patch, used has you can see. I find it on a.... M1941 field jacket reproduction! I buy this jacket to a friend who made some reenactement with it. He buy patch (in mint condition!) on eBay last year and sewn it on his jacket. That's break my heart to see the condition of this patch now... :crying:

 

 

 

 

Thierry

[BILL THE PATCH]

Many many other variants of German made patches do exist. It was my intention to point out some attributes you'll find MOSTLY with German made patches. Maybe it's a little help for the new collector. Please feel free to add your knowledge about „German mades“ here. Thanks for looking!

 

Lars

 

 

OH MY GOD, THAT'S AMAZING INFO, :thumbsup: i did no some of what your talking about, but not that much and i've been collecting for over 35 years ( on and off). any other tidbits you can retell? I have a Theatre made European Civil Affiars Patch but the emb is not anything you have described hear. Or were they made in austria? thansk bill

[phillock]

Hi Lars

 

Just received a bunch of patches one of which is HQ ETOUSA 3rd design German manufactured, the pics might not show but it is in immaculate condition clean and crisp,my question is this insignia was approved and worn for a short time ,(march 45-and re-designated to US Forces European theatre August 45 (Using SHAEF with blue background- RW Smith SSI USAF1941-45) would this be of the era or later manufactured ie 1950's onwards. I want to put this in my collection from 1945-48 era-Dimensions 7cm width x 9.5cm length and no glow-Phill

[Proud Kraut]

Phill, I hope I understood your question right. Impossible to say, when exactly this particular patch was manufactured. Postwar made, of course, but could also be made in the 1950's. I'm sorry but can't tell it exactly. However, great patch, would love to find one!

 

Lars

[phillock]

Hi Lars

 

I have compared this to your pieces and they tend to be very well kept as the day they were manufactured.My thought was that the patch HQ ETOUSA is in such a good condition that it could of been made in 70's thus putting it well out of the time frame and being a repoduction SSI. So 1950's is ok-thanks for your feedback.

 

 

Phill

[infinitig35]

Patches were made for U.S. Forces in Germany immediately after the war by countless tailor shops and manufactures. All kind of variations of machine and hand embroidered patches were produced, especially in southern Germany. Some of these patches were made exactly like the U.S. originals, often with the same type of „Schiffli“ machines. Some of these patches have unique characteristics you'll find nearly exclusively with „German mades“.

I would like to sum up some of these attributes, that are usually associated with patches made „over here“.

Hi PK,

 

I have had this "love affair" with German made U.S. Army unit patches, have since I saw my first one back in the 1970s. BeVo are some of the most interesting and well executed designs, I love the fine details in the weaving and uniform backgrounds. The German Schiffli or "German embroidered are also well executed and very worthy collectibles. The German makers seem to be able to offer a very uniform background fill stitch often showing a lot of bobbin thread on the back. The German makers are also tuned into details in their satin stitching. I trust the Germans also made a number of fine hand embroidered "bullion" pieces and those machined on wool fabrics like for the U.S. Constabulary and Cavalry Regiments. Needless for me to say but I put a high priority in adding these back into my latest adventure back into the collecting game.

 

One piece I had acquired back in 1980s was a First Cavalry Division patch that I refer to as a "square shield". My memory fails me but I believe I purchased it from a dealer at a show. It was love at first sight. The horse's head is larger than the standard and the ears are more pronounced and pointed in shape and the black bend is more narrow. The stitch work is excellent and the background fill stitches are uniform much like the German variety. I first thought the patch was of Japanese manufacture as the First Cavalry spent many years after WW2 and the Korean War in Japan. My friend served in Korea and was hospitalized in a Tokyo Army Hospital said the unit was "ever present", he called them the "Japanese sign painters" as their insignia adorned the sides of buildings and smoke stacks around town.

 

Your knowledge and information posted here is much appreciated. The patch I once had appeared on eBay (front view only), at least it is similar to my recollection. I bid too low and lost it. I am including a photograph here for your comments which would be most appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[BigJohn#3RD]

Very Informative String. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Thanks

John

[infinitig35]

I dig up this topic for show my last german made patch.

 

It's a BRO 1st Inf Div patch, used has you can see. I find it on a.... M1941 field jacket reproduction! I buy this jacket to a friend who made some reenactement with it. He buy patch (in mint condition!) on eBay last year and sewn it on his jacket. That's break my heart to see the condition of this patch now... :crying:

 

 

 

 

Thierry

Thierry,

 

Nice close up shot of the bobbin side of this First Infantry patch, this is fairly typically of German design, a nice structured background fill pattern, it almost appears to look woven rather than stitched. On today's regulation SSI I notice a very short stitch fill pattern with little to no bobbin threads showing. My guess these American patches have been digitized rather than hand punched as I believe the early German (1940s) were. If you look at typical divisional patches produced for the Quartermaster during WW2, the fill in almost random, as it would be if it were hand punched. I would love to know how the Germans produced such precise stitching, by hand, or did they have an automated punching system?

 

Another interesting and attractive fill pattern came out of some American suppliers during WW2, it appear like rows of zig-zags or waves. Some pre-wars on wool were also made this way. Since seeing this used is random, on certain patches only I am led to believe it was one or a handful of embroideries who had such a fill technique.

 

Some early fill patterns from WW1 and pre-WW2 also used a longer satin stitch in rows to form a fill pattern, also offering a slightly different twist on the appearance of certain patches.

 

With digitization today, a puncher has many choices for fill patterns, some very interesting but probably not in keeping with the more regimented designs required to today's military units.

 

Will on the subject may I express my displeasure with some of the merrow-edging I've seen done. Some of it is darn right sloppy workmanship, round or regular shapes best fit this method but on irregular shapes like the 6th Cavalry the merrow-edging bleeds into the design and ruins the appearance. The little tails are annoying as well and were the threads join there is usually a slight bump in the edge.

 

In all of my years of patch "watching", since about 1948 I have seen patches come out of the Pacific and European Theaters, well worn, well laundered but still in one piece with no unravelling of the stitched edges. The Merrow Process is not automated if I am correct, and it is costly, wasting Federal Monies IMO.

 

My first First Cavalry patch came from a playmate of mine whose father served in the Pacific. You could tell it had rough use, and while it had shrunk from its previous size, under the bend on the right size was distorted, all stitches were present and accounted for and no unravelling at all.

 

I can't believe it is easier to sew on a Merrow-edged patch by hand than a cut edged one, harder in fact so that may be in part one reason the Army now specifies Velcro-backed patches (also for rapid removal in battle when necessary). Velcro backed patches have no appeal to me as a collector, nor are patches pasted into albums with thick mounds of glue and or paper stuck to the backs. Staples to leave their mark, distracting from the patches' appearance.

 

I bid on a number of old patches mounted on blue index cards, these were neatly identified by an old fashioned typewriter and the patches affix to the cards with staples. Remove the staple and there was an indentation that was formed over many years. I think the collector who amassed this had some great finds. I believe this is what is known (by some dealers) as "the millionaire's collection". Correct me if I have misspoken. Why does the Army need three different versions of a subdued design, plus one full color "dress uniform" version? Higher inventory costs, supply management, more procurement involved but the defense contractors are as happy as a wet hog on a hot day.

 

EOR

 

Tom

[Teamski]

Thierry,

 

Nice close up shot of the bobbin side of this First Infantry patch, this is fairly typically of German design, a nice structured background fill pattern, it almost appears to look woven rather than stitched. On today's regulation SSI I notice a very short stitch fill pattern with little to no bobbin threads showing. My guess these American patches have been digitized rather than hand punched as I believe the early German (1940s) were. If you look at typical divisional patches produced for the Quartermaster during WW2, the fill in almost random, as it would be if it were hand punched. I would love to know how the Germans produced such precise stitching, by hand, or did they have an automated punching system?

 

 

Am I the only one thinking this patch is simply a computer stitched one??

 

-Ski

[Proud Kraut]

@Thierry Question regarding your 1st Inf Div patch please: Any reaction under UV light?

 

This basket wave has fooled me sometimes. I'm posting two German made postwar/cold war era 1st ID patches from my collection for comparison.

I also have seen some brandnew patches, made in this style (as Ski called them: computer wave) but these reacted under UV light....

[Proud Kraut]

Backs.

[Proud Kraut]

@Tom: Yes, the square shield 1st Cav patch. Thank you very much for posting the picture! I'm posting mine for comparison. As you'll notice it has the same shape, an OD border as well but the color of mine seems to be a bit lighter. Mine shows "Basket wave". The ebay one looks standart US embroidered at the first glance but it can also has been made over here. Have a similary one from 2nd Cav Div. I would love to see the back of the ebay one.

[Proud Kraut]

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