usmcaviator Posted July 19, 2009 Share #26 Posted July 19, 2009 OK Mike.... show me another oneOne of my best friend, is living only at 3 Km From BW, Marigny en Orxois, la Voie du Chatel, Ecoute s'il pleut ( Chek your diaries)He digged up at least 100,mod 1914 EG&A in BW and in the near vicinity, also in the Argonne and in the Saint Mihiel area over the last 30 years.( He is a member here)No one was ever affixed to an helmet, and I would like to find one, only one.Teufelhund. Ask and ye shall receive...This is a crop from a RPPC that is owned by my brother and came in a lot of items named to a 66th Company Marine. I only have a scan of the front, but I believe that it is dated just after Belleau Wood (Jun or Jul). The Marines I believe are also identified, but I can only remember that the Marine sitting with the gas mask on his chest is Medal of Honor winner Sgt Luis Cukela. The rest I believe were officers. The Marine on the right (with the .45 and slung gasmask) is wearing an EGA on his helmet. The men are in the field and it is a wartime shot. I'm telling you gents, it wasnt done often, but Marines wore EGAs on their helmets well prior to the armistice.Maj M(BROKEN LINK REMOVED) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo367 Posted July 19, 2009 Share #27 Posted July 19, 2009 Mike what a great photo!......It just wouldn't make sense if they wouldn't have had the EGA. It probably would have caught but some slap d*ck officer (no offense) took offense or one of the Marine laws was implemented. Either everyone does it or none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC A5 Sniper Rifle Posted July 29, 2009 Share #28 Posted July 29, 2009 I never knew anyone questioned the use of EGA's on helmets prior to the Armistice. After 6 Jun, the battle was fought primarily by replacements, who had precious little time to put EGA's on their helmets. They were rushed to the front, and often as not, died within days of arriving, if not hours. You are handed a Brophy and rushed to the front straight into battle, not much time for punching holes in helmets. I am making an Excel database of all the Jun 18 Muster Rolls, and a quick sort of the KIA's vs enlistment dates vividly shows the huge loss of the 'Old Salts" on 6 Jun 18, particularly in the 67th and 20th Companies. Latest enlistment date for Belleau Woods so far is Feb 18, and more than one (not re-enlistments). Those young green Marines were rushed into a hellstorm. Why would anyone think they didn't put EGA's on their helmets? I think I may have some photos of the 4th Brigade showing EGA's on helmets in battle. I will check when I get home. Look at the pictures, some obviously did have EGA's on their helmets, although the Marines had more pressing problems at the time. They went into battle wearing forest greens, but as they wore out (within days), they were replaced with Army uniforms. They probably put the EGA's on their helmets to preserve some scrap of indentity as being a Marine. Semper Fi, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted July 30, 2009 Share #29 Posted July 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure there is another mix-up in the photo ID's of the men; I'd make a heavy bet that Graves B. Erskine is actually the second from the left. None of the others nearby have his distinct facial features. I have to go along with Jim's comments above about the presence of EGA's on helmets, and his logic for them being infrequently seen during the latter half of 1918. And punching that hole for the stud sounds simple enough, but it takes a real hard punch and a bit of effort. So it wasn't something that you just casually did while taking break and sipping from your canteen. Great photo and very interesting thread. Thanks for keeping this one alive. I hadn't seen it before either ! Best regards to all, Paul Walker Klamath Falls, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_Owen Posted November 24, 2009 Share #30 Posted November 24, 2009 I stumbled on this discussion tonight while a friend in France & I were researching this same photo. I am the "LtCol Owens" who used this photo in my book (actually my name is Owen, not Owens -- but I misspelled Coffenberg, so it serves me right). I definitely think you all have correctly identified the unnamed officer as Capt Coffenberg. That's a good piece of work - I wish I'd had your help when I was doing research. I attached an earlier photo of Coffenberg. I now believe the officer over Holcomb's right shoulder is Jack West, not 2nd Lt. E.J. Stockwell. I got the attached picture of West from his son after the book came out. I've attached photos of Coffenberg (pre-war), West (i got from his son), and Schneider (whom I believe to the officer on the extreme right). I could not figure out how to insert photos in the post here. Semper fi, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted November 24, 2009 Share #31 Posted November 24, 2009 Hello Pete and welcome aboard, pleasure to have you here! We look forward to seeing the phoro's you mention, here you will find two pinned thread on working with pic's and posting them. Again welcome aboard! s/f Darrell http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...hp?showforum=24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted November 24, 2009 Share #32 Posted November 24, 2009 I stumbled on this discussion tonight while a friend in France & I were researching this same photo. I am the "LtCol Owens" who used this photo in my book (actually my name is Owen, not Owens -- but I misspelled Coffenberg, so it serves me right). I definitely think you all have correctly identified the unnamed officer as Capt Coffenberg. That's a good piece of work - I wish I'd had your help when I was doing research. I attached an earlier photo of Coffenberg. I now believe the officer over Holcomb's right shoulder is Jack West, not 2nd Lt. E.J. Stockwell. I got the attached picture of West from his son after the book came out. I've attached photos of Coffenberg (pre-war), West (i got from his son), and Schneider (whom I believe to the officer on the extreme right). I could not figure out how to insert photos in the post here. Semper fi, Pete Welcome aboard, Pete Owen! When your outstanding book came out in 2007 I immediately wished I had known about it earlier as I would have been honored to share the unpublished Coffenberg pics that I have. I had always been convinced that the U/I officer in that photo was Coffenberg. In 2000 Gilles Lagin took our MHT group to the 80th Company's old PC near LaCense Farm where a French 'citroen' grenade (rendered inert by time!) was recovered and presented to me at our luncheon in Lucy on my 60th birthday by former CMC General Mundy, who was on that tour along with BGen Simmons! What a treasure in my collection and memory! There are certainly more stories to be told or re-told of the 4th Brigade Marines. Let me know if you are working on anything that I may assist on. I'd be privileged. Semper Fi......Bob Gill 0302 USMCR Ret. P.S. I have corrected the inadvertant mis-spelling of your name in this thread. Sorry 'bout that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_Owen Posted November 25, 2009 Share #33 Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks, Darrell. Ok, here are some photos: Gordon Grimland (Clifton College 1910) Lucien Vandoren (previously misidentified as Egbert Lloyd) (NARA) Bailey Coffenberg (previously misidentified as Franklin Garrett) (NARA) Jack West (previously misidentified as EJ Stockwell) (photo from Carl West) John Schneider (Culver Military Academy photo) Semper fi, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_Owen Posted November 25, 2009 Share #34 Posted November 25, 2009 Bob, glad you liked the book. Especially high praise from a fellow 0302. I posted some photos above. Here's what I now think the caption should be: Left to right: Lieutenants Gordon Grimland LT George L. White 1stLt Graves B. Erskine 2nd Lt. Lucien H. Vandoren Captain Randolph T. Zane Capt. Bailey Coffenberg 2ndLt Jack West Major Thomas Holcomb 2ndLt Clifton B. Cates 1stLt Amos R. Shinkle 2ndLt John C. Overton 2ndLt John G. Schneider. I have a short presentation explaining how I came up with these. I can email anyone interested, but it's too big to upload. S/f Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_Owen Posted November 25, 2009 Share #35 Posted November 25, 2009 Maj M, great photo. You mentioned it's a crop. Can you post the whole photo? S/f Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC A5 Sniper Rifle Posted November 25, 2009 Share #36 Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks, Darrell. Ok, here are some photos: Semper fi, Pete Thank you, Pete, for posting the photos, and the caption for the original picture posted. Maybe you can help me. I have been searching for a photo of Lt. James S. Timothy, the Army officer who died beside Coffenberg from shell fire. I found your book to be one of the best I have read on the subject. Excellent work. Semper Fi, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_Owen Posted November 25, 2009 Share #37 Posted November 25, 2009 Jim, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed the book. I guess you've seen his DSC: *TIMOTHY, JAMES S. Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Army Infantry Reserve Corps, 6th Regiment (Marines)(Attached), 2d Division, A.E.F. Date of Action: June 1 - 15, 1918 Citation: The Distinguished Service Cross is presented to James S. Timothy, Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army, for extraordinary heroism in action in the operations of June 1 - 15, 1918, near Chateau-Thierry, France. Although weakened by gas poisoning, inflicted while serving with the French in Verdun sector, Second Lieutenant Timothy declined medical assistance and served with heroic fortitude with the marines. He inspired the officers and men with whom he was in action by his fearlessness and fortitude until instantly killed by a high-explosive shell. General Orders No. 99, W.D., 1918 Home Town: Highland Falls, NY I have never seen a photo of Lt Timothy. I poked around online and discovered he went through Plattsburg in Company 16, 18th Provisional Training Regiment. But the trail ended there. Your best bet it to figure out where he went to college, and then get a yearbook photo. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC A5 Sniper Rifle Posted November 25, 2009 Share #38 Posted November 25, 2009 Jim, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed the book.I guess you've seen his DSC: I have never seen a photo of Lt Timothy. I poked around online and discovered he went through Plattsburg in Company 16, 18th Provisional Training Regiment. But the trail ended there. Your best bet it to figure out where he went to college, and then get a yearbook photo. Pete Thank you, Pete. I hit the same dead end as you. No idea of what college he attended, but I will try his hometown papers. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC A5 Sniper Rifle Posted November 26, 2009 Share #39 Posted November 26, 2009 Thank you, Pete. I hit the same dead end as you. No idea of what college he attended, but I will try his hometown papers. Jim I found a picture of Timothy. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Boghots Posted November 26, 2009 Share #40 Posted November 26, 2009 I'm pretty sure there is another mix-up in the photo ID's of the men; I'd make a heavy bet that Graves B. Erskine is actually the second from the left I firmly stand by Erskine as second from the left . . . Great work guys, I've really enjoyed following this thread ! :thumbsup: Best regards, and Happy Thanksgiving to you all. Paul Walker Klamath Falls, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo367 Posted August 16, 2010 Share #41 Posted August 16, 2010 There was a great discussion regarding this photo of officers from the 6th Marines......here is a video taken at the same time. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675021...ose_World-War-I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devildog34 Posted August 17, 2010 Share #42 Posted August 17, 2010 Great footage Popo367! I missed this particular one in my earlier listing, Wow by far the best of the video clips on critical past's sight! Semper Fi, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share #43 Posted August 17, 2010 Yeah, what Kevin said....GREAT catch! Man, that's some amazing video. Thanks for the link! I think I'll watch it again... -C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted August 17, 2010 Share #44 Posted August 17, 2010 Excellent video! The best of the lot. Thanks for finding it. Enrique! Semper Fi.....Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted August 17, 2010 Share #45 Posted August 17, 2010 I never knew anyone questioned the use of EGA's on helmets prior to the Armistice. After 6 Jun, the battle was fought primarily by replacements, who had precious little time to put EGA's on their helmets. They were rushed to the front, and often as not, died within days of arriving, if not hours. You are handed a Brophy and rushed to the front straight into battle, not much time for punching holes in helmets. I am making an Excel database of all the Jun 18 Muster Rolls, and a quick sort of the KIA's vs enlistment dates vividly shows the huge loss of the 'Old Salts" on 6 Jun 18, particularly in the 67th and 20th Companies. Latest enlistment date for Belleau Woods so far is Feb 18, and more than one (not re-enlistments). Those young green Marines were rushed into a hellstorm. Why would anyone think they didn't put EGA's on their helmets? I think I may have some photos of the 4th Brigade showing EGA's on helmets in battle. I will check when I get home. Look at the pictures, some obviously did have EGA's on their helmets, although the Marines had more pressing problems at the time. They went into battle wearing forest greens, but as they wore out (within days), they were replaced with Army uniforms. They probably put the EGA's on their helmets to preserve some scrap of indentity as being a Marine. Semper Fi, Jim What is a "Brophy?" Do you mean a Brodie pattern steel helmet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted April 23, 2015 Share #46 Posted April 23, 2015 Bump, for a great USMC historical thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurfreesboroMemphis Posted May 20, 2015 Share #47 Posted May 20, 2015 Agreed. I enjoy going back and rereading this one from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted May 20, 2015 Share #48 Posted May 20, 2015 Me too! Semper Fi........Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly USMC Posted May 21, 2015 Share #49 Posted May 21, 2015 Not sure how I missed this the first time around. Thanks for the bump. Semper Fi, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcCulloch Posted June 2, 2015 Share #50 Posted June 2, 2015 Great thread! Does anyone perchance recognize this Lt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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