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Headquarter garrison belt. Ultrarare or butchered?


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#1 artu44

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:17 PM

An auction for this belt is expiring in these hours. I was hit by the unusual presence of the lower line of grommets but, looking better, I suspect they were added later by someone to hook on pieces of equipment without using the dedicated slides ruining forever a nice collector piece. You can see on the back that rivets are not the classic belt rivets rebated on a washer for max strenght, but they are common rivets used on cheap dress belts crimped directly on the fabric (they are not longlasting). What do you think?

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#2 cwnorma

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 09:10 AM

artu44,

You are correct, it is a shame that it has been modified that way. Still it presents well, and the Headquarters plates are getting harder to find.

Might as well pick it up, unless you already have a better one. If worse comes to worst and you just don't like it, you can always swap the plate to a better belt.

Chris


An auction for this belt is expiring in these hours. I was hit by the unusual presence of the lower line of grommets but, looking better, I suspect they were added later by someone to hook on pieces of equipment without using the dedicated slides ruining forever a nice collector piece. You can see on the back that rivets are not the classic belt rivets rebated on a washer for max strenght, but they are common rivets used on cheap dress belts crimped directly on the fabric (they are not longlasting). What do you think?



#3 artu44

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 09:17 AM

Auction expires in four hours and price is 76$. I dont give my money to butchers unless I would have a restoring project.

#4 Gil Sanow

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 04:03 PM

Auction expires in four hours and price is 76$. I dont give my money to butchers unless I would have a restoring project.


These "H" belts have been around confounding militaria collectors for years. I certainly encountered them 30 years ago or more. After a thorough study of US Army regs, I have come to the conclusion that they are NOT Army issue. (Regulation Army belts have US for EM's, Eagles and wreaths for officers.)

If this is H for HQ, why would all other companies not have appropriate letters?

I suspect they are from some military school. For the heck of it, the only "H" initialed one I can think of is Howe Military Academy. What others there were then I do not know.

#5 cwnorma

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:41 PM

Gil,

The H isn't for "H" Company, it is for "H"eadquarters.

In 1917, the Army used an identical large capitol H insignia for headquarters troops on an enlisted type one collar insignia. This insignia was used for several Headquarters assignments (such as Military Police), and was only in use for a very short time. It was generally replaced with various new branch insignia or more descriptive letters.

I believe that these plates, representing headquarters, were only used by the Army during the time the disk was used which was 1917. Which was also the last year for the M1910 garrison belt. This would account for the relative scarcity of this plate.

It is possible too that they were used by National Guard to represent headquarters, or even possibly they are for troops in the Department of Hawaii (similar to the known Phillipine Constabulatory "PC" plate--which is also not listed in Army regs). However, if they were used by state organizations or schools, I should think that they would show up in the various Mills catalogs, as the Mills Co. never missed a chance to market their wares. If that were the case, I would also expect to see other variations besides just "H"

I have as yet seen no evidence to suggest that they were used by any school.

For me, the jury is still out on thier use.

Chris






These "H" belts have been around confounding militaria collectors for years. I certainly encountered them 30 years ago or more. After a thorough study of US Army regs, I have come to the conclusion that they are NOT Army issue. (Regulation Army belts have US for EM's, Eagles and wreaths for officers.)

If this is H for HQ, why would all other companies not have appropriate letters?

I suspect they are from some military school. For the heck of it, the only "H" initialed one I can think of is Howe Military Academy. What others there were then I do not know.




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