What to watch for: Examples of fake/reproduction patches

[pconrad02]

What to watch for: Examples of fake/reproduction patches

 

Forum members, I am starting this thread as a reference for collectors of all levels, as a place to post pictures and give tips on reproduction patches. Please post!

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

[SARGE]

Paul,

 

To help you kick off your new thread on reproductions, I submit the following MP patch. It seems to be a Patch King fantasy patch for excellence. Does anyone have any more information on this patch to add?

 

 

View of the rear of the patch showing the embroidery. The patch does not glow, it is embroidered on green felt, and is roughly the size of a silver dollar.

 

 

Has anyone seen this patch in a Patch King catalog? Was there ever such a patch worn?

[Uniforms of the Day]

Although I have never encountered one myself, on a uniform, it may well have been used unofficially and I have seen them referenced as having been worn. However, this patch appears on page 19 of the war-time Patch King catalogue. In the photo, it is 2nd from the right, top row.

Chris Brown

[siege1863]

From a wartime guide to insignia. Second row, fifth from left...

 

[KurtA]

Here's the Patch King price list from 1946.

[KurtA]

On the back page, under "World War I Patches" they list an M.P. Efficiency E patch for 15 cents.

Kurt

[tredhed2]

Paul -

 

Here is the first of many on this thread. Most collectors are familiar with the US Army Mission to Moscow patch. However, there is one that was made for collectors c. 1945 and one that was worn. The fully embroidered patch on the right with the wide white borders is the made for colleoctrs patch; the one on the left, with narrow letters and a narrow border, with an eagle that looks like an eagle, is the one that was worn during the war.

[pconrad02]

Dave,

 

This is scary, the patch on the right is the one commonly considered as good , by most collectors, including myself!!

 

Paul

[siege1863]

The "Mission to Moscow" patch has me scratching my head. Here is an example from a guide to shoulder patches. It is dated June 1945 and, although not very sharp, it is a photo of an actual patch. Seems this one has traits found in both patches posted above.

 

[tredhed2]

The "Mission to Moscow" patch has me scratching my head. Here is an example from a guide to shoulder patches. It is dated June 1945 and, although not very sharp, it is a photo of an actual patch. Seems this one has traits found in both patches posted above.

 

 

I should add that the patch on the right has been found on at least two Ikes; the one I contend is made for collectors has not, to my knowledge, nor has it been found being worn in any period photos. The US Army Mission to Moscow was a small unit, but I don't have #s in front of me.

 

I am not questioning the patch illustrated, but perhaps the one depicted is all that could be found. I would like to remind collectors that there are several patch "reference" books that have really bad repros or outright fantasies depicted. If a patch is in a book, it lends credence - and perhaps the book's author has a reason to depict the patch - so it can sell.

[tredhed2]

Here is another patch made for collectors, c. 1947. This is a US made, cut edge patch for the Nurenburg War Crimes Trials. They still go for high $, probably because the prices of the real ones scare everyone off. The original ones were German made, and have been discussed in this forum.

[pconrad02]

Dave, I've seem that one go for big bucks, do you (or anyone) have a any Jingpaw and Kachin (sp?) Rangers patches, they sell for big bucks too and I know there are very few originals

[mortaydc60]

Here is another patch made for collectors, c. 1947. This is a US made, cut edge patch for the Nurenburg War Crimes Trials. They still go for high $, probably because the prices of the real ones scare everyone off. The original ones were German made, and have been discussed in this forum.

 

 

Dave is quite right with the Nurenburg patch;to further clarify will post the US version and a German made bullion made example. the German made versions are very scarse and though each are individually made exhibit common traits ; such as a black border or bullion usually dark and the key should have a nazi cross on one end.Mort

[mortaydc60]

Dave, I've seem that one go for big bucks, do you (or anyone) have a any Jingpaw and Kachin (sp?) Rangers patches, they sell for big bucks too and I know there are very few originals

 

 

Paul if I am not mistaken the Jingpaw and Kachin were US made and sent to the unit. There is a more definitive story in the Trading Post by Les Hughes and perhaps he even has it on his website. Have scan of Jingpaw and 101 detachment pin

[tredhed2]

Dave, I've seem that one go for big bucks, do you (or anyone) have a any Jingpaw and Kachin (sp?) Rangers patches, they sell for big bucks too and I know there are very few originals

 

Yes, as you can see, I do. The Jingpaw on the left is typical of an early occupation Japanese- made patch, fully embroidered; thick and the embroidery goes different directions. The Kachin on the right (US-made) is the one that was cut up and re-sewn together. Two reasons - the Brits objected to the shape of the patch, as it resembled one of theirs, and the "USA"; and two, the OSS troops though it looked too much like a CBI patch, which was thought to be worn by non-combat troops. I doubt the veracity of the second explanation - I mean, why not the Jingpaw, too, being cut up, among other reasons of mine?

 

I would stay away from bullion versions of these patches unless there was solid documentation.

[tredhed2]

These pop up on Ebay quite often as RARE unknown amor patches.

 

What they are, or what they were, were WW II PX patches have had the borders with the letters cut off. The some one embroidered company letters (A-C), S, and TD (which should be a giveaway -why Tank Destroyer on an Armored patch when they were separate branches in WW II?)

[tredhed2]

Oops..fatigue set in on this posting. here are what the "rare" ones that pop up on Ebay look like - the ones in the prior post are the PX exampes.

[Jim Baker]

Oops..fatigue set in on this posting. here are what the "rare" ones that pop up on Ebay look like - the ones in the prior post are the PX exampes.

 

Hey Dave,

 

It may have been you that pointed these out to me, I can't remember now. It's a damn shame people will destroy a patch to pull something like this. These PX patches are collectible in their own right.

[tredhed2]

But the PX patches are only worth a fraction of what the RARE and UNCOMMON "round armor" patches are to the unknowing.

[tredhed2]

Many dealers and collectors have been fooled by the repro 802nd TD patches. I have attached pix of the real one (TOP) and the fake one (BOTTOM) which was made in the 70s.

 

Some of the differences: sides of the patch in relation to the insignia in the center(the real patches are much wider); the fuzziness of the fake vs. the wool of the real; the line of wool that separates the wings is distinct on the fake; distance between the left bolt and left horn is smaller on the fake; the end of the tongue is not as distinct nor as pointed on the fake; the four white lines on the fake are not slightly curved; the light color on the bolt is actually yellow on the fake, and orange on the real (TD colors - black and orange); then angle of the jaw on the fake is different, and is not as wide as on the real; and finally (whew!) the point at the base is not as large. If I forgot something, Mort'll help us out. Be ADVISED that some dealers cut the fake down and sew them to Ikes -or sell them cut down.

[tredhed2]

I noted that in the real patch (TOP) the bolts aren't quite orange. I apologize, but I can't adjust it - the whole patch looks a little washed out. When I hold the real patch in my hand, the colors as as vivid as they are in the fake - not that that does you viewers a lot of good.

[tredhed2]

Many collectors have seen these types of "Rangers" numbered diamond patches offered for sale (numbers 1-15). The one depicted is a crappy repro, but no matter - THEY WERE NEVER EVER WORN - even the US made examples. What happened is that some patch manufacturers learned of the Army's plan to organize 15 Ranger Infantry Companies (NOT battalions) during the Korean War. They began to be activated in Aug 1950, and were finalized by Feb 1951. Due to a number of reasons, the companies were inactivated by Aug 1951. What the Rangers preferred to wear, with the exception of the 7th Ranger Co, were the black/red/white scrolls similar to those worn by the Ranger battalions of WW II. I will post an example later.

 

There is an article on the Ranger Companies During the Korean War in the Jan-Mar 1995 issue of The Trading Post, and may be purchased from ASMIC (back issues are available). During the research that went into this article, it was determined by interviews with several vets, from different companies, as well as discussions w/ the Center of Military History, and discussions with other more knowledgeable colletors that the diamonds were never worn.

[tredhed2]

Here's a fake 6860th T Force patch that has been making the rounds. The differences between this and a good one: the oversized flat border to this patch; the many loose ends; the embroidery goes different directions and is not in an obvious thread count; and the white background should be fully embroidered rather than this exotic cloth. I hope someone out there has a good one to show readers.

[mortaydc60]

The T Force is found only two ways. The main is embrodied but not US made. I repeat not US made; was made in Lyon France and the patch is very flimsey in that if you hold the patch on the bottom border it will fall over where with a US made patch it would stand erect most of the time. The second version is in bullion and is very well done and elaborate.

[pconrad02]

What was the total number of the T- Force patches? Very, very, very, small number correct?