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Unusual Trapdoor trainer


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#1 copdoc

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 04:58 AM

Hi Guys
I found this in a local shop. I usually don't buy toys but this was neat. It is a bit more than a toy but not a real gun. It is made to shoot percussion caps and has a steel sleeve around the barrel that appears to be the diameter to hold a M1816/1822 US spike bayonet. The trapdoor bayonet and M1858 Springfield are too small. I don't have an 1816 bayonet and had to borrow a musket to compare. It has casting numbers on the lock and hammer but I do not see any other marks.

Has anyone seen one?

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#2 Charlie Flick

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:59 AM

Hello Copdoc:

I have never seen one of those. It is pretty neat and is obviously well made for a toy or non-gun item. Nice find.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

#3 Plant#4

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:27 AM

Wow! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif this is very cool. Could this be a military school parade rifle? It looks like a great find! Is the action nickle plated? Dave

#4 Bugme

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:46 AM

Wow! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif this is very cool. Could this be a military school parade rifle? It looks like a great find! Is the action nickle plated? Dave

I was thinking the same thing. Very nice find!

#5 copdoc

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 02:26 PM

Thanks Guys

It does appear Ni plated. I had the same feelings. I usually don't look at toys but this was just neat and well made. I know I over paid but it is one of the few times so I will not whine. I have not shot it yet. A CCI cap is just a bit small but Remington caps are a few thou larger I think and I have some old ones. A friend tells me they are from the turn of the century and were called "Quaker" rifles, used for military schools to teach young lads the martial arts and drill. I would guess at the time the M1816/22 bayonets were cheap and that is why it was that size rather than the diameter to fit a trapdoor. I also realize it may have had a "fencing" bayonet. What are my chances of finding a bayonet to fit it????????? http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif :lol:

I would love to see one in a catalog or photo if any of you guys run across one.

#6 J_Andrews

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 03:06 PM

This may have been made/sold as a maritime line-throwing gun. Years ago, a friend who had a .45-70 came into about a 100 rds of civilian (Winchester? Remington?) .45-70 "blanks" that were labelled to the effect that they were for use ON|LY for line-throwing, under safe conditions for the firer(s) and nearby people. When he fired some on a New Year's Eve he validated the theorem: they had an ungodly loud blast and long tongue of flame!

He did some research and found out that cut-down G.I. .45-70s had in fact been standard equipment for the Lifeboat Service, Lighthouse Service and (when amalgamated) US Coast Guard, as well as sold by ships' chandler businesses. They were still in use in the 1930s IIRC.

He also found that these, or similar guns, had been used on whaling ships in Alaskan waters, to supplement real harpoon guns.

Your gun may have been a civilian device for the same purpose. Does it appear strong enough? Does it have rifling?

#7 copdoc

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 06:27 PM

This may have been made/sold as a maritime line-throwing gun. Years ago, a friend who had a .45-70 came into about a 100 rds of civilian (Winchester? Remington?) .45-70 "blanks" that were labelled to the effect that they were for use ON|LY for line-throwing, under safe conditions for the firer(s) and nearby people. When he fired some on a New Year's Eve he validated the theorem: they had an ungodly loud blast and long tongue of flame!

He did some research and found out that cut-down G.I. .45-70s had in fact been standard equipment for the Lifeboat Service, Lighthouse Service and (when amalgamated) US Coast Guard, as well as sold by ships' chandler businesses. They were still in use in the 1930s IIRC.

He also found that these, or similar guns, had been used on whaling ships in Alaskan waters, to supplement real harpoon guns.

Your gun may have been a civilian device for the same purpose. Does it appear strong enough? Does it have rifling?



It is hard to tell from the pics but it will not shoot a projectile. It has a wooden barrel with a metal band around the end. Maybe for bayonet practice or fencing. ??? A percussion cap fits on the nipple but it has no flash hole. The hammer is made to shoot percussion caps. The breech is well made but hollow and does not connect to the barrel or the nipple. I guess this is a real "cap gun". All it will shoot is caps. It looks pretty real in person also. Just when I thought I had seen most everything this popped out in a local antique store. I still see something different about every week or so.

There were some trapdoors made into line throwing guns and I have seen at least one harpoon gun made from a trapdoor. I considered buying the harpoon gun.

#8 copdoc

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 06:12 PM

It does shoot. The musket caps fit. You guys know I have to shoot everything.

http://www.youtube.c...re=channel_page

#9 Bugme

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 05:19 AM

A rather short video clip but, it does prove the point that it does work! So, when do we see: Cap Gun: The Sequel? :lol:

#10 copdoc

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 06:10 AM

A rather short video clip but, it does prove the point that it does work! So, when do we see: Cap Gun: The Sequel? :lol:


Now that is a good idea. Watch for it on Lock and Load" with the Gunny. I'll ask him to add cap guns. :lol:


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