John Cooper Posted March 18, 2007 Share #1 Posted March 18, 2007 Just something that poped into my mind. I was wondering if any of you wing collectors cleans his wings or do you leave the natural patina? Cheers John Psst always on the look out for more Balfour wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted March 18, 2007 Share #2 Posted March 18, 2007 My personal preference is to use a little soap and water to remove dirt ETC, but I would not polish them. I prefer the old patina . Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtbrown Posted March 18, 2007 Share #3 Posted March 18, 2007 I have been known to polish them but ONLY with toothpaste and toothbrush. Once, many years ago when I first got into this madness, I cleaned a pair with Tarn-X. BIG mistake. It left them absolutely spotlessly shiny. It took a good ten years before they developed any character again. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted March 18, 2007 Share #4 Posted March 18, 2007 I have NEVER cleaned a pair of wings or any other piece of metal insignia to include polishing them. I believe that a 60 plus year old piece of insignia should look like a 60 plus year old piece of insignia. Take a look at the C.I.B. thread. There is a C.I.B. on there that was cleaned. Compare it to the one that look old. Which would you rather own? Now, if you want bright and shiny, then clean them, but don't be surprised that the interest isn't there when you go to sell a polished piece. My two cents, Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongee Posted March 18, 2007 Share #5 Posted March 18, 2007 Never clean ANYTHING unless you intend to sell for half what you paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srossio Posted March 18, 2007 Share #6 Posted March 18, 2007 Ahh, the age old question...to polish or not to polish. I feel that it is a personal choice however I tend to side with the "not to polish." One reason is that you can never be quite sure how cleaners will react with what you are polishing. A number of years ago I polished a set of brass officer "U.S." insignia that had been treated with some kind of 60 year old anti-tarnish treatment. They had a nice mello glow before I began and were ruined when I finished. After that I decided to only "polish" things that required cleaning to save them from destruction (i.e. rust, etc.) and even then the polishing is done with extreme caution! I should add that in the ten years since I made that mistake I have only polished/cleaned two more items that came to me in very bad shape. Just my two-cents. I should also add that not all wings were "bright." One vet I asked about this stated that his wings were a combination of dull with bright accents which made the wings seem to jump off his chest. If you were to polish these wings today, that depth (and history) would be lost! Steve aka 15armyairforce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtbrown Posted March 18, 2007 Share #7 Posted March 18, 2007 I have NEVER cleaned a pair of wings or any other piece of metal insignia to include polishing them. I believe that a 60 plus year old piece of insignia should look like a 60 plus year old piece of insignia.Take a look at the C.I.B. thread. There is a C.I.B. on there that was cleaned. Compare it to the one that look old. Which would you rather own? Now, if you want bright and shiny, then clean them, but don't be surprised that the interest isn't there when you go to sell a polished piece. My two cents, Allan #1. Sell? #2. That is why I use only toothpaste. It removes the crud, not the character. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baker Posted March 18, 2007 Share #8 Posted March 18, 2007 Take a look at the C.I.B. thread. There is a C.I.B. on there that was cleaned. Compare it to the one that look old. Which would you rather own? My two cents, Allan That was me with the CIB. I don't normally "polish" anything. I might lightly clean dirt off something like Kurt, but normally that's it. In this case, there was some detail I wanted to see. Hand slapped and noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srossio Posted March 18, 2007 Share #9 Posted March 18, 2007 I'm sorry, I was only referencing "polishing" an item and not cleaning it. I agree that toothpaste and a soft brush works great to get the crud off an item without destroying the patina. I did learn an important lesson when using a toothbrush and toothpaste. No matter how badly you need to clean a piece, never, and I mean NEVER, use your wife's toothbrush! (even if you are planning on replacing it later in the day with a brand new one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baker Posted March 18, 2007 Share #10 Posted March 18, 2007 I'm sorry,I was only referencing "polishing" an item and not cleaning it. I agree that toothpaste and a soft brush works great to get the crud off an item without destroying the patina. I did learn an important lesson when using a toothbrush and toothpaste. No matter how badly you need to clean a piece, never, and I mean NEVER, use your wife's toothbrush! (even if you are planning on replacing it later in the day with a brand new one) Yeah!! Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenkursk Posted March 18, 2007 Share #11 Posted March 18, 2007 I particularly enjoy when someone cleans or polishes trench art, insignia, medals, swords, etc. and then wants to return them because "they did not polish up as nicely as they thought they would." As a dealer I want to be as flexible and friendly as possible... but I will admit that I rather enjoy breaking the bad news to the guy who has polished 60 or 100 years of patina off of an item and still labors under the impression that it is worth anything remotely close to what he paid for it. 99 times out of 100 when the item is antique and question involves any of these or similar words: clean, polish, remove, replace, add, 'restore', fix, brighten, enhance, treat, improve, etc. the correct answer is: "PUT THE TOOLS DOWN AND BACK SLOWLY AWAY FROM THE ARTIFACT...." It's all fun and games until somebody starts cryin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted March 18, 2007 Well I am glad to see this turned into an interesting thread. My question was really about the more gentle non polishing type of cleaning vs. something more envolved and was more about the gold Navy wings vs the standard sterling USAAF type. (sorry it was late and I was shooting from the hip) The USAAF are supposed to have a specific patina which as far as I know was one of the steps in the process from the maker prior to being finished but the Navy wings I have all seem to be very different since they are the gold type. I tested the soft toothbrush on a set and the luster from that was remarkable! Anyone care to comment on the Navy wings? Thanks JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Ragan Posted March 19, 2007 Share #13 Posted March 19, 2007 I've cleaned both Air Force & Navy wings with toothpaste with no problems. I like the wings to look clean because that's the way they would have been worn. No self-respecting military man would have worn dirty and tarnished insignia if he could help it. I agree that you don't want to ruin the age patina, but cleaning off years of crud won't hurt. I don't care to display wings that have turned black with "patina". They look bad and were not worn in that condition. Just MHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 19, 2007 Share #14 Posted March 19, 2007 The only time I never clean or polish wings is: 1. If they are BLACK, usually from being stored on a uniform in moth balls. Then I just lightly brush over them with some "Never-dull wadding" and them rub them a little with a piece of felt. 2. If they are actually dirty, then I use a soft brush to get the crud off. Navy wings, I have always left them alone! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted March 20, 2007 The Navy wings have this weird golden brown residue in the wings not sure what it is... not part of the finish but I guess could be some for a reaction to being stored with something else... not sure. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted March 21, 2007 Share #16 Posted March 21, 2007 That was me with the CIB. I don't normally "polish" anything. I might lightly clean dirt off something like Kurt, but normally that's it. In this case, there was some detail I wanted to see. Hand slapped and noted. Hey Jim, If you've decided that you may have made a mistake by polishing the new CIB, all is not lost. The jeweler I usually had do repair soldering on EGA's, wings, etc.. gave me a small bottle of a product called "Oil of Liver" before he retired and moved away. He told me that you can find this product at jewelry supply stores, but I haven't had the need to put patina back on sterling silver lately, so haven't tried to find a new bottle of it yet. Anyway, you take your sterling silver whatever and put it in a closed container and put the opened bottle of Oil of Liver in with it. I used a Cool Whip container, placing the lid down first, opened the bottle of Oil of Liver and set it on the lid with the sterling setting next to the bottle. You then cover them with the tub part of the container. The fumes from the Oil of Liver will oxidize silver and you can put 60+ years of patina back on a CIB, sterling EGA or wings overnight, depending on how dark you want them. You just have to check on the piece every now and then to see if it has the right patina you're looking for. I was told by him that this is what jewelers use to oxidize or put that antique patina look on brand new silver jewelry. I used it to put patina back on a pair of WWII USMC sterling EGA's that some seller on eBay had polished to a high shine and it worked remarkably well. As for safety, I believe this Oil of Liver is safe and it doesn't really have a smell, so you could probably do it in your wife's sewing room and get away with it. Don't try it in your war room, for you might oxidize something acidentally that you don't want oxidized! If anyone else has more information or suggestions on the use of Oil of Liver, I'd like to hear it. Like I said, I've only used it twice and it worked really well for me, the jeweler that gave it to me said it was completely safe to use, but maybe there are drawbacks or hazards I'm not aware of. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thcollector Posted April 20, 2007 Share #17 Posted April 20, 2007 If you have metal insignia that is really grungy with grease and dirt, try soaking it is distilled water (grocery store, .99/gallon). The distilled water has no ion charge and will dissolve a lot of grime while leaving the patina untouched. It is great for removing copper oxides (green corrosion) from copper alloy items. We use distilled h2o now to clean ancient coins and antiquities. it works great and leaves the patina. Acetone is great for removing grease and grime from poorly stored coins without attacking the patina but i have neve used it on insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted April 20, 2007 Share #18 Posted April 20, 2007 Can a soft cleaning with a toothbrush and toothpaste help to determine original from recently made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share #19 Posted April 20, 2007 Can a soft cleaning with a toothbrush and toothpaste help to determine original from recently made? Interesting question... not sure since there are many ways to age things... You are better off knowing the materials the wing should be made of and the process in which it was created. (stamped vs. cast... several other standard methods.) Do you have a wing you are unsure of? If so post some detailed photos (macro type) so we can see. Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted April 20, 2007 If you have metal insignia that is really grungy with grease and dirt, try soaking it is distilled water (grocery store, .99/gallon). The distilled water has no ion charge and will dissolve a lot of grime while leaving the patina untouched.It is great for removing copper oxides (green corrosion) from copper alloy items. We use distilled h2o now to clean ancient coins and antiquities. it works great and leaves the patina. Acetone is great for removing grease and grime from poorly stored coins without attacking the patina but i have neve used it on insignia. Nice tips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted August 20, 2008 Share #21 Posted August 20, 2008 A nice collection of opinions here, so I thought I would add mine to the "collection". Patina, patina, patina....that is what it is all about for me. Personally, I will not buy a wing that has been cleaned - any wing. I like to see that deep blackening in the recesses, and a dull silver finish to the high points. To me, stripping the patina is like washing away history. I know, they weren't issued that way, but they did pick up all of that character by travelling through time. Someone else mentioned cleaning with a soap solution; I can go for that. I have a few silver pieces that have grunge and dirt in the recesses, and I find that a mild dish washing detergent, warm water, and a soft toothbrush does a nice job. With this method, the patina stays completely intact and it actually brings out more detail (for example in the shield lines) than you would not have been able to see otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share #22 Posted September 3, 2008 A very soft tooth brush and some mild soap plus warm water does wonders! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted September 3, 2008 Share #23 Posted September 3, 2008 I'm sorry,I was only referencing "polishing" an item and not cleaning it. I agree that toothpaste and a soft brush works great to get the crud off an item without destroying the patina. I did learn an important lesson when using a toothbrush and toothpaste. No matter how badly you need to clean a piece, never, and I mean NEVER, use your wife's toothbrush! (even if you are planning on replacing it later in the day with a brand new one) Fact is, if any of us wore "chromed" or shiney wings (buckles, buttons etc.), it was a gig... worse than a wife's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigredone Posted September 3, 2008 Share #24 Posted September 3, 2008 Always better to leave something unpolished. Tarnish can always be polished off, but a freshly scrubbed item looses its original patina. Also, a lot of items were issued with a certain finish that's lost when you clean them. Is there anyone in this board that wouldn't rather have the tarnished or less-polished item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted September 3, 2008 Share #25 Posted September 3, 2008 Never clean ANYTHING unless you intend to sell for half what you paid for it. Ditto, likely the best advice - philosophy for anyone even contemplating such a endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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