JACKPOT! Huge ID'd Archive to WWI Observer Owen G Williams

[cthomas]

I believe this is the same Fokker, but showing the opposite side. Can anyone help me ID either insignia???

[Escadrille]

The line of German fighters are Albatross fighters. The second one in the line was flown by Manfred von Richthofen - yep, the "Red Baron" himself. This is a rather famous photo of his squadron that has been published many times over the years. Pretty cool to get a period copy of it!

 

The shadowy-looking single aircraft in the air looks like a British Bristol Fighter.

 

Great stuff! Keep it coming!!

 

Thanks much for the posting.

 

Charlie W.

[cthomas]

The line of German fighters are Albatross fighters. The second one in the line was flown by Manfred von Richthofen - yep, the "Red Baron" himself. This is a rather famous photo of his squadron that has been published many times over the years. Pretty cool to get a period copy of it!

 

The shadowy-looking single aircraft in the air looks like a British Bristol Fighter.

 

Great stuff! Keep it coming!!

 

Thanks much for the posting.

 

Charlie W.

 

Charlie-

Thank you! Just the type of information I was looking for

 

I'll keep 'em coming as I get to scanning...

[njaviators]

Great stuff - keep 'em coming -

 

Charlie nailed the "shadowy sillouette" it is a Bristol fighter.

 

The "camoflauged" DH-4 in the bushes is probably a forced landing *and* a camo job. It was not unusual to try to break up the outline of aircraft FTL so the German artillary would not target it.

 

The two Fokkers are interesting. I do not think they are the same aircraft. The first one with the "R" and crown shows the the white band likely goes around the fuselage and to the other side. The second with the "winged sword" is very much like the markings of a Fokker known to be of Jasta 68. I've seen another photo of it, but can't put my hands on it. If I do I'll post it.

 

Mike

[cthomas]

Great stuff - keep 'em coming -

 

Charlie nailed the "shadowy sillouette" it is a Bristol fighter.

 

The "camoflauged" DH-4 in the bushes is probably a forced landing *and* a camo job. It was not unusual to try to break up the outline of aircraft FTL so the German artillary would not target it.

 

The two Fokkers are interesting. I do not think they are the same aircraft. The first one with the "R" and crown shows the the white band likely goes around the fuselage and to the other side. The second with the "winged sword" is very much like the markings of a Fokker known to be of Jasta 68. I've seen another photo of it, but can't put my hands on it. If I do I'll post it.

 

Mike

 

 

Yes, please do Mike! I would be very grateful for it.

I have trouble finding Jasta markings on the net. Strange, but I do. Maybe I need to learn how to search for such things. Any key words I need to use? What about websites? Got any that may help me? I'd be real interested in one that has a good rundown of the camo schemes/Jasta markings.

Thank you for your input on the Bristol fighter & on the image of the field camo job/forced landing. Makes perfect sense.

 

-Chuck

[Tino]

Absolutely incredible, thanks for posting!

[cthomas]

Here's another silhouette for you guys. The British Handley Page or a German Gotha bomber?

[AndrewA74]

Here's another silhouette for you guys. The British Handley Page or a German Gotha bomber?

Handley Page...notice the tail assembly, that the Gotha does not have.

Andrew

[cthomas]

Handley Page...notice the tail assembly, that the Gotha does not have.

Andrew

 

 

That's what it is. Thanks

[njaviators]

Chuck -

 

I can't think of a good central location for Jasta markings on the net - doesn't mean there isn't one, but simply I haven't found it yet either. I've got a good library and am fortunate enough to know some of the leading guys in that very specialized field so have a little background.

 

I suspect that most of the German aircraft you'll run into in your files were turned over after the armistice. Some are are very well known machines. If you run into any labeled Major Anderson or Major Anderson killed in this .... I'd be very interested in that.

 

Harry B.Anderson was a New Jersey boy and while I have two photos of the results of his fatal crash, I have none of the airplane intact.

 

Until then, keep the shots coming - I'll be happy to help ID them.

 

Mike

[cthomas]

OK Mike. Please keep me in mind if you do stumble upon such a site(s).

And I will keep you informed if I should ever come across a photo of Anderson's machine. They're several in this grouping, ranging from the 17th Sqd to the 94th, 278th & on.

I've also ran across many images of the captured German aircraft, some that were obviously converted for use by the Allies.

I thank you again for your offer of assistance. I'm sure going to need it because I'm just starting a serious study of WWI aviation. I've always had a fascination with WWI aviation & the Tank Corps since I was a little boy. This grouping & all of the wonderful aviation artifacts being posted to this forum, have rekindled that interest tenfold.

 

-Chuck

 

FYI- Love your site! Just noticed the hyperlink in your signature. The one on the Golden Age Air Museum does not work.

 

Chuck -

 

I can't think of a good central location for Jasta markings on the net - doesn't mean there isn't one, but simply I haven't found it yet either. I've got a good library and am fortunate enough to know some of the leading guys in that very specialized field so have a little background.

 

I suspect that most of the German aircraft you'll run into in your files were turned over after the armistice. Some are are very well known machines. If you run into any labeled Major Anderson or Major Anderson killed in this .... I'd be very interested in that.

 

Harry B.Anderson was a New Jersey boy and while I have two photos of the results of his fatal crash, I have none of the airplane intact.

 

Until then, keep the shots coming - I'll be happy to help ID them.

 

Mike

[cthomas]

Mike-

Here's one for ya...

 

American Officers checking out a crash site. Note the officer with his back to the camera & taking a picture of the wreck (camera case slung over his shoulder).

 

Can anyone help me identify this machine? I went through my copy of Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War I but could not find a dead match. The closest thing I came up with is maybe a German A.E.G. bomber.

[njaviators]

Mike-

Here's one for ya...

 

American Officers checking out a crash site. Note the officer with his back to the camera & taking a picture of the wreck (camera case slung over his shoulder).

 

Can anyone help me identify this machine? I went through my copy of Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War I but could not find a dead match. The closest thing I came up with is maybe a German A.E.G. bomber.

 

That's a French Letord. Not enough nose detail for me to say which model, buts it's probably a 2, 4 or 5. They all looked very much alike. Since this was in a US album, I'd lean toward the 5 since it's a later model. There were later models still, but they had different radiator arrangements.

 

Thanks for the heads up on my signature links... I think I fixed the Golden Age Air one...

 

Here's another one - they apparently enjoyed landing on their nose...

[cthomas]

That's a French Letord. Not enough nose detail for me to say which model, buts it's probably a 2, 4 or 5. They all looked very much alike. Since this was in a US album, I'd lean toward the 5 since it's a later model. There were later models still, but they had different radiator arrangements.

 

Thanks for the heads up on my signature links... I think I fixed the Golden Age Air one...

 

Here's another one - they apparently enjoyed landing on their nose...

 

 

Perfect! I did a triple take to make sure it wasn't the same crash as seen in your image. I'll take another gander at the Jane's book to see how I passed it up.

I appreciate your help!

 

-Chuck

 

Oh & your "Golden Age" link is now working...

[njaviators]

Just noticed something - That tree on the horizon, the twisted nose, the tall grass, the panel sticking out of the left side of the fuselage..... these two photos are of the same airplane !

 

The photo was out of the album of Captain Howard Meyer (a New Jersey boy!) who was with the 2nd Corps Aeronatical School at Chatillion. In my notes for this photo, I have it ID'd as a Letord Type 2 (must have figured it out....). I do not know if it's from Chatillion though.

 

Neat coincidence.....

[cthomas]

Just noticed something - That tree on the horizon, the twisted nose, the tall grass, the panel sticking out of the left side of the fuselage..... these two photos are of the same airplane !

 

The photo was out of the album of Captain Howard Meyer (a New Jersey boy!) who was with the 2nd Corps Aeronatical School at Chatillion. In my notes for this photo, I have it ID'd as a Letord Type 2 (must have figured it out....). I do not know if it's from Chatillion though.

 

Neat coincidence.....

 

I'm thinking mine was taken first as the guns had already been salvaged by the time your image was taken. In fact, if you take a close look at mine, there's an enlisted guy in the observer's seat in the act of removing the guns. You almost get the impression too that yours was rummaged through (nose section pried open a bit more & certain other minute details not shown in mine).

I wonder if Captain Meyer is one of the officers surrounding the wreckage...

 

Sadly, there's no ID on back of the image.

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

Chuck,

 

Due to the vast amount of historical images here, I am pinning this topic. There is a wealth of information in these image, and I thank you for sharing them with us all. I know that you will keep us informed of your progress when the time comes for the publication of a book, and I know we all look forward to seeing more images.

[cthomas]

Chuck,

 

Due to the vast amount of historical images here, I am pinning this topic. There is a wealth of information in these image, and I thank you for sharing them with us all. I know that you will keep us informed of your progress when the time comes for the publication of a book, and I know we all look forward to seeing more images.

 

 

Thank you Steve. I'll keep posting when I'm not reading & taking notes.

What I plan on doing first is of course read up, get a more solid foundation on which to launch from. It will behoove me to do so that I may understand & interpret the information within these images much more effectively. Somewhere between all this, I'm sorting through the mounds of paper goods in this collection trying to determine how best to preserve & prepare the images for archiving. I've got a couple of online resources already in mind (i.e. lightimpressionsdirect.com) and a few recommendations from other members (thank you guys ).

Once I take a step back to survey my notes, look through the collection again when it's sorted out, after spending much time researching online & hitting the reference books hard, talking shop with you fine fellows.... I think then I will have a clear idea of how I'm going to put this into book form.

Now, it's time to call it a night. My day starts @ 4:30am.....

[Lost Battalion Man]

THAT'S A WONDERFUL FIND! Congrats!

Would you be good enough to tell me if there are any 50th Aero pictures in there?

Contact me off list at [email protected] and I'll be happy to fill you in on why I ask.

Really like to see if there are any. The Old Dutch Cleanser Gal was their insignia.

Contact me, will you please?

 

Again, congrats!

 

Rob

[cthomas]

THAT'S A WONDERFUL FIND! Congrats!

Would you be good enough to tell me if there are any 50th Aero pictures in there?

Contact me off list at [email protected] and I'll be happy to fill you in on why I ask.

Really like to see if there are any. The Old Dutch Cleanser Gal was their insignia.

Contact me, will you please?

 

Again, congrats!

 

Rob

 

Rob-

I'd love to help you out but I don't recall encountering any 50th squadron images. I think I would have spotted them fairly quick as it is one of my top 5 favorite Aero insignias.

Thank you too for your input on my supposed 50th squadron dogtags. It may be exactly what you suggested or of course that they were made up & the 50th squadron charm was added to 'enhance' it. Might make for some interesting research down the line. Thanks again.

 

-Chuck

[cthomas]

DH4's lined up with ground crew & Pilots nearby

[cthomas]

RARE prototype French Biplace machine

[cthomas]

Bill Vail (standing far right) of the famed 95th 'Hat-In-The-Ring' Squadron posing with some observers. Vail was recommended for the MOH for his actions on November 6, 1918. That day, he & a fellow Chicagoan, Lt. Josiah Pegues were on a two-man patrol when they spotted a German two-seater observation plane. They both dive on the machine. It was a trap. They were so intent on attacking the machine that they did not see the nine Fokkers waiting to pounce. Instead of beating a hasty retreat, Pegues continued his attack on the biplace (blissfully unaware of their predicament even though Vail tried to signal him) & Vail turned into the nine diving Fokkers to meet them head on. Vail manages to shoot down one of the enemy aircraft but is severely wounded in the action when his left leg is shot off below the knee. The nine Boche aircraft continue to riddle Vail's Spad as it hurdles toward the ground. The Spad crashes into the soft mud of the Argonne, flipping over & pinning his head beneath a wing. Doughboys in the area come to Vail's rescue & somehow manage to lift the machine enough to pull Bill's crumpled body from underneath the destroyed Spad. Vail & Lt Pegues both survive the few remaining days of the war. Vail's recommendation for the MOH was never approved, though he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for his selfless actions that day.

For more detail on this action & that of the 94th & 95th Aero Squadrons, I recommend reading "Echoes of Eagles" by Charles Woolley.

[cthomas]

Various stuff (patches,collar insignia, medals etc...). Note the 3rd Army sliver ring right below the 2nd Army SSI

[cthomas]

Captain W.C. Schauffler(?) of the 90th Aero Squadron with other Aviators getting ready for a night on the town.

There's a popular image from the National Archives that shows Schauffler posing next to the 90th's insignia. If you have the new Schiffer book "Organization & Insignia of the AEF" by Dalessandro & Knapp, turn to page 273 & you'll see the image I used to come up with this possible ID.