cthomas Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share #26 Posted January 13, 2009 Wish I could, not only to help out and finger the stuff in person, but also to see lovely Minnesota again - I lived in Springfield for 1st & 2nd grade (my grandfather was the pastor of their Methodist Church), and did a long canoe trip from Ely north through Moose Lake etc etc etc, as a nine year old with 2 uncles. That camo job on the bi-plane is a first that I've ever seen like it. Maybe others more familiar with WW1 aviation know what it is. I don't think you're missing much. Today it was only -14F (that's -25C for the rest of the world) with plenty of that white stuff on the ground. Seriously, if you find yourself in the area again, or if this group could entice you to come up this way, let me know. I'd more than welcome the company. I'm looking forward to some feedback from the WWI aviation buffs on that camo scheme. There were at least two other related images, one showing what I believe to be the pilot posing next to the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker502 Posted January 13, 2009 Share #27 Posted January 13, 2009 The paint might be from the Circus that was held in the Army of Occupation. I know your familiar with the crazy designs the 94th aero did on the Spad XIII I know there was a dotted one, stripes etc. My gut says its from that.. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share #28 Posted January 13, 2009 Finally, a picture of Williams posing for the camera in the observer's seat of a 278th Aero Squadron marked Liberty machine. Description on back states it was taken at Toul airfield France. His son writes "On May 7, 1919, he was in this airplane flying over Zin-zag-am-Rhine when the plane hit an air pocket and it fell about 1500 feet to about 1000 feet above the Rhine. The fall lifted Dad off his feet, threw him out of the rear seat with the camera in hand and "by the grace of God" the safety belt around the middle of his body [kept him from plummeting to the earth]. After 10 miles or so he was able to get enough strength to crawl back into the plane. Two days later--on May 9, 1919, the plane crashed. This was Dad's last ride over the Rhine, as on May 9, 191 he received orders to go home!" This is also the same image used in the newspaper article on Williams. I apologize for the nagging watermark. If someone has a better program that can help me preserve the integrity of this collection, please let me know! FYI- You can barely make out a camo scheme along the tail section... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share #29 Posted January 13, 2009 The paint might be from the Circus that was held in the Army of Occupation. I know your familiar with the crazy designs the 94th aero did on the Spad XIII I know there was a dotted one, stripes etc. My gut says its from that.. Paul Paul- That's a good possibility. I've encountered some images taken above an AEF divisional football game & a poster promoting a Horse show during the Occupation era. Why not a circus? I'll keep an eye out for something along those lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted January 14, 2009 Share #30 Posted January 14, 2009 ...Seriously, if you find yourself in the area again, or if this group could entice you to come up this way, let me know. I'd more than welcome the company. Let me know if/when you think you might order and receive the interleaving tissue... I may just do that. Mrs. Bluehawk would be glad to get rid of me for a few days (I think). Interesting info you're starting to get on the paint job for that bi-plane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted January 14, 2009 Share #31 Posted January 14, 2009 Chuck You going to have to take steps to preserve that collection....rolled pictures over time develop stress cracks and split (sadly I've got examples of such) also until you get everything preserved watch for humidity in the house....from what i remember of the great north it is pretty dry during the winter outside but the summers are humid. While cataloging everything watch for old rusted metal paper clips and pins that rust through onto other items....and get acid free sleeves instead of those manila envelops. I'll PM you to discuss details of what I've done and the mistakes I've made with paper and pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croix de Guerre Posted January 14, 2009 Share #32 Posted January 14, 2009 Here's one little gem....An exotic camo job on a Liberty(?) machine. The insignia seen just above my water mark belongs to the 85th Aero Squadron. The 85th's insignia consisted of a Cupid wearing a campaign cap & sitting on top of the world. Has anyone seen such a bizarre paint scheme? Hey Chuck, I think your plane is a De Havilland DH-4 and I think Baker is right,,this wacky paint scheme became quite a fad after the Armistice was signed. The Army of Occupation held a big circus in Coblenz, Germany in 1919 and a lot of the old Spads from the 94th were there painted in all kinds of crazy ways. From the Aerodrome Forum - "Designed by Geoffrey de Havilland in 1916, the D.H.4 was the only British design manufactured by the Americans. It was easily identified by its rectangular fuselage and deep frontal radiator. Versatile, heavily armed and equipped with a powerful twelve cylinder engine, this biplane daylight bomber was fast. Sometimes called the "Flaming Coffin," its huge fuel tank was dangerously positioned between the pilot and observer, hindering communication. Produced in vast numbers, many D.H.4s were modified for civilian air service after the war." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share #33 Posted January 14, 2009 Hey Chuck, I think your plane is a De Havilland DH-4 and I think Baker is right,,this wacky paint scheme became quite a fad after the Armistice was signed. The Army of Occupation held a big circus in Coblenz, Germany in 1919 and a lot of the old Spads from the 94th were there painted in all kinds of crazy ways. From the Aerodrome Forum - "Designed by Geoffrey de Havilland in 1916, the D.H.4 was the only British design manufactured by the Americans. It was easily identified by its rectangular fuselage and deep frontal radiator. Versatile, heavily armed and equipped with a powerful twelve cylinder engine, this biplane daylight bomber was fast. Sometimes called the "Flaming Coffin," its huge fuel tank was dangerously positioned between the pilot and observer, hindering communication. Produced in vast numbers, many D.H.4s were modified for civilian air service after the war." Tom- I've got that picture (or at least I remember seeing an image similar to that in my collection)! I also have several photos of that machine which show its sad fate & the death of its pilot. I'm almost certain it has the same name & I'm almost certain it's documented in his diary. If not there, then he tells the story on the back of the images. Notice the flying owl grasping the spyglass in its talons. That's the insignia of the 278th aero squadron. With a little luck, I'll be able to ID the guy you see posing for the camera. More on that when I have a few minutes more to type away. Right now, it's off to the graveyard shift I go! Almost forgot to thank you for your ID of the machine. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share #34 Posted January 14, 2009 Chuck You going to have to take steps to preserve that collection....rolled pictures over time develop stress cracks and split (sadly I've got examples of such) also until you get everything preserved watch for humidity in the house....from what i remember of the great north it is pretty dry during the winter outside but the summers are humid. While cataloging everything watch for old rusted metal paper clips and pins that rust through onto other items....and get acid free sleeves instead of those manila envelops. I'll PM you to discuss details of what I've done and the mistakes I've made with paper and pictures. Amen to that Dirk! It causes me to tense up every time I look at those curled up images. I know it can't be a good thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Posted January 14, 2009 Share #35 Posted January 14, 2009 Fabulous group of stuff!!! The 2nd Army Air Service Book is getting scarce these days. You have quite a nice group of stuff to go through. I'm sure it will tell an interesting story. Thanks for the posting. I look forward to seeing more as you go through it. Charlie W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share #36 Posted January 15, 2009 One of the 'piles' containing about 75-100 of the larger 6" X 9" images & lots of the smaller sizes. Various topics such as a Jewish doughboy in the field, lots of pics of St. Mihiel, Gen Pershing reviewing 3rd photo section etc... Top photo shows 3rd Photo Section posing in front of what Williams has referred to as their "lorry", or mobile developing studio. Williams is marked with the X above his helmet. He ID's this image as being taken at Toul flying field on February 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #37 Posted January 16, 2009 Here's a great image of a German airfield with several Albatros planes lined up. He obviously made a period copy of it using the original that was either 'liberated' or traded for during the war. I did a little photo editing to bring out the picture more but as you can tell, the contrast is off & the definition isn't there. That's tells me it wasn't made from the original negative or that the copy he used wasn't the best. Still, period done. If I'm wrong on the aircraft ID, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #38 Posted January 16, 2009 The much publicized victory of Lt Alan Winslow over a German Albatros near Toul, France April 14, 1918. Some credit Winslow with shooting down the first plane for the American Air Service but my understanding is it was Kiffin Rockwell of the Lafayette Escadrille who had this honor. Could it be that if we're talking about the first American to gain an air victory, it would be Rockwell but if you look at it as the first American to gain a victory as part of the United States Air service, technically speaking, it would be Winslow? On a side note, google the Winslow victory & you might see an image similar to this one. If your eyes are good, you might also see other related images taken this same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disneydave Posted January 16, 2009 Share #39 Posted January 16, 2009 Just loving this collection...and I look forward to the book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #40 Posted January 16, 2009 An unidentified American(?) machine taking one last 'flip' for the evening. You can see that this was printed from a cracked glass plate negative. I think I still have the negative.... The silhouette looks like it might be a DH4, probably one of the many associated with William's squadron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 17, 2009 Share #41 Posted January 17, 2009 BEAUTIFUL! And this is such a small part of what you have in your possession. I know it's an old and worn out cliché but.. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #42 Posted January 17, 2009 BEAUTIFUL! And this is such a small part of what you have in your possession. I know it's an old and worn out cliché but.. Wow! Thank you. It doesn't get old seeing other people get excited as I do when scanning them. But you're right on one point...these are just a handful of the 1000's in this lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #43 Posted January 17, 2009 Another great shot of machines flying in formation. Note the aviator trailing behind (bottom right of image). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #44 Posted January 17, 2009 Unidentified float planes getting into position for takeoff... Is there enough detail there for someone to ID the aircraft model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #45 Posted January 17, 2009 An attempt at camouflage or emergency landing? It looks to me like an attempt at obstructing the view from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #46 Posted January 17, 2009 A little something for the Marine Corps collector... Wally-His Cartoons of the AEF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #47 Posted January 17, 2009 first page... As you can see, it's in a delicate condition. Won't be handling it too much longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #48 Posted January 17, 2009 One more scan showing some of the comic sketches inside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #49 Posted January 17, 2009 Hey Chuck, I think your plane is a De Havilland DH-4 and I think Baker is right,,this wacky paint scheme became quite a fad after the Armistice was signed. The Army of Occupation held a big circus in Coblenz, Germany in 1919 and a lot of the old Spads from the 94th were there painted in all kinds of crazy ways. From the Aerodrome Forum - "Designed by Geoffrey de Havilland in 1916, the D.H.4 was the only British design manufactured by the Americans. It was easily identified by its rectangular fuselage and deep frontal radiator. Versatile, heavily armed and equipped with a powerful twelve cylinder engine, this biplane daylight bomber was fast. Sometimes called the "Flaming Coffin," its huge fuel tank was dangerously positioned between the pilot and observer, hindering communication. Produced in vast numbers, many D.H.4s were modified for civilian air service after the war." Hey Tom... RE: your post showing the image of the DH4 named "KATHELEEN" ... I mentioned this machine crashed & the pilot was killed. Well, I don't know for sure if the pilot was killed but his passenger, an Infantry Captain from the 1st Div (I've got his name-just need to pull it up again) was getting his first 'flip' in this plane when it crashed. Williams mentions the Inf Captain survived with some scrapes & bruises but he does not tell of the fate of the pilot. I'm sure I'll be able to determine that soon. Also of note is the image you posted is the same machine as seen in the one of Williams posing with his camera. Hard to see in my post, but on the original it's very clear. I've also seen a different angle of KATHELEEN shown in the Bender book on the history of the American Air Service. Seems like a real popular gal... -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share #50 Posted January 24, 2009 A captured German Fokker. Can anyone ID the insignia? The guy standing by the prop wears a full-length fur coat. The other aviator standing by the tail section is wearing a 2nd Army SSI on his overcoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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