Unofficially Named WIA for Review

[ErwinRommel1940]

Hello all,

Here is a group that I recently acquired. I believe the PH to be unofficially named, but since I am not very familiar with unofficially named PH, I'd like some opinions.

Thanks for the help in advance!

[ErwinRommel1940]

Also, I have done some research and found the below newspaper article. Based on what I have found, I belive that Ward was likley in one of the Bulge relief units, but have been unable to identify his unit/division. I have tried Ancestry, Fold3, NARA and others...if anyone can identify his unit, I'd be appreciative.

 

 

[dhcoleterracina]

I think it's official, just done in the 50's or 60's. See what others think.

[USMCR79]

I think it's official, just done in the 50's or 60's. See what others think.

 

I agree - 1950's engraving - should also have a Bronze Star medal for having the CIB

 

Bill

[ErwinRommel1940]

dhcoleterracina - Thanks for your opinion.

 

Bill - Pardon my inorance, what is a CIB?

 

I assume it better to be official from the 50's than unofficial?

[USMCR79]

CIB - Combat Infantryman Badge - After WWII the Soldier's who were awarded the CIB were also eligible for the Bronze Star Medal.

 

Bill

[ErwinRommel1940]

Bill,

 

Thanks for the clarification. I didnt know getting a CIB made you eligible for the BSM. When did that take affect?

 

Thanks!

[MMcollector]

Bill,

 

Thanks for the clarification. I didnt know getting a CIB made you eligible for the BSM. When did that take affect?

 

Thanks!

Here a link to all the information on the CIB Bronze Stars:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/69425-cibbronze-star-conversion/

[TheMariner]

dhcoleterracina - Thanks for your opinion.

 

Bill - Pardon my inorance, what is a CIB?

 

I assume it better to be official from the 50's than unofficial?

1950s official versus unofficial engraved pieces are fairly comparable to unofficial but period engraved pieces. Value drops pretty dramatically for 50s-Present reissues. I commonly see 50s reissue sets selling at about 50% of period pieces in most cases. I would say that is also the case for unofficial(as long as its attributable and period engraving). Basically in my opinion its apples and oranges. Most like as other said he either didnt care or didnt know about the CIB-Bronze star conversion till the mid 50s thus he didnt order it earlier. Either that or this is a reissue of one he had request previously in the late 40s and lost or had stolen.

[ErwinRommel1940]

Here a link to all the information on the CIB Bronze Stars:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/69425-cibbronze-star-conversion/

Thanks, interesting. Looks like I need to add a CIB and potentially BSM. Based on what I read, he may never have applied for the BSM. Perhaps this is why it doesnt appear on his ribbons bars. Either way, thanks for the help!

[easterneagle87]

Although the info provided says, "infantry, general or specified" he may not have been infantry branched would not be eligible for the CIB. They were throwing everyone they could into the Bulge to stop the Germans. I think more info is needed before we can automatically award him a CIB.

[scottplen]

I found this guy listed on 80th division site as WIA . I will see if I can find it again ?

[ErwinRommel1940]

1950s official versus unofficial engraved pieces are fairly comparable to unofficial but period engraved pieces. Value drops pretty dramatically for 50s-Present reissues. I commonly see 50s reissue sets selling at about 50% of period pieces in most cases. I would say that is also the case for unofficial(as long as its attributable and period engraving). Basically in my opinion its apples and oranges. Most like as other said he either didnt care or didnt know about the CIB-Bronze star conversion till the mid 50s thus he didnt order it earlier. Either that or this is a reissue of one he had request previously in the late 40s and lost or had stolen.

 

I'm not sure I follow here... Given that this PH is a official 50's issue, it is a reissue of one he would have already received (in the 40s) and then potentially lost, had stolen, etc?

[scottplen]

Vets could have their medals engraved by the government.

Found him online on a site .

Purple Heart GO # 23 80th division Jan 23 1945

PFC ward C Ervin infantry WIA 19 Jan 1945

Not sure how he received arrowhead device on ETO medal ?

Not sure but dont think 80th division had assault credit ? Maybe he was in a different unit prior ?

[ErwinRommel1940]

Vets could have their medals engraved by the government.

Found him online on a site .

Purple Heart GO # 23 80th division Jan 23 1945

PFC ward C Ervin infantry WIA 19 Jan 1945

Not sure how he received arrowhead device on ETO medal ?

Not sure but dont think 80th division had assault credit ? Maybe he was in a different unit prior ?

I see. So its hard to say if it was a reissue or if he just had his original named in the 50's? Just want to make sure I'm understanding.

 

80th ID, awesome, thanks! May I ask what site you used? I'd like to get a copy of the information and put it with my other documentation.

 

The medals came with the PH when I bought it. No provenance was provided indicating that these were his one way or the other.

[scottplen]

He may not have had enough time to receive a CIB ? he could have been a replacement from another unit hence the assault arrowhead device ? you could reach out to golden arrow researchers to get his records in costs a bit but I think its worth it ?

[scottplen]

I googled his service # and name and the last result on page is it . its a pdf file I think ? search does not work so look it up by date jan 19 1945

[ErwinRommel1940]

I googled his service # and name and the last result on page is it . its a pdf file I think ? search does not work so look it up by date jan 19 1945

Found it on the 80th ID Website. Thanks!

[scottplen]

Cool ! Good luck with the research ! You never know what may come up ?

[scottplen]

See www.findagrave.com

[dhcoleterracina]

It's a good time to post things for discussions, we've all been sent to our rooms.

[ErwinRommel1940]

It's a good time to post things for discussions, we've all been sent to our rooms.

I figured as much. I have 2 more named PH and 2 named SS on the list to post for review....I just don't want to hijack the entire sub-forum with novice level questions.

[scottplen]

No question is ever novice . There are tons of people with tons of knowledge and they love to help ! So post away !

[TheMariner]

 

I'm not sure I follow here... Given that this PH is a official 50's issue, it is a reissue of one he would have already received (in the 40s) and then potentially lost, had stolen, etc?

 

One of two circumstances occurred either he lost or had his Purple Heart stolen that he received during the 40s and requested a new one sometime in the mid 50s or he was never awarded a Purple Heart and requested it and had the proof to back it up and was then issued the Purple Heart in the 50s. Its not official 50s issue, its just thats the period style of engraving. It is safe to say this Purple Heart though was not in possession of the veteran until sometime into the 50s. When assessing value on WIA pieces 50s engraving values out at or around unofficial engraving. Its really apples and oranges, I have noticed sometimes people have a hard time selling them depending on the unit and service record etc.