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KIA Purple Heart Question - Lt. William A. Stacey


ErwinRommel1940
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ErwinRommel1940

Hello all,

This was my first PH purchase about 6 months ago. Originally, I thought it was a goverment issue posthumous PH. After reading here, it appears that government issue Army Purple Hearts were never awarded with the rank or unit. Since Lt. Stacey was KIA, wouldn't his family have received a named PH? If so, what is the deal with this one?

Thanks for the help in advance!

 

 

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If he was killed on a combat mission, even though it was a crash, he would have been entitled to a posthumous Purple Heart.

 

If it was not considered a combat mission (it sounds like this one was though) he would not have been awarded a posthumous Purple Heart.

 

Either way, this Purple Heart is not an official government-engraved posthumous Purple Heart.

 

Hope that helps!

Dave

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ErwinRommel1940

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for your input. I too was thinking that it was a combat mission, so he should get a government issue PH. So I dont see why the family would have gotten a privately engraved heart. So my question becomes: is this one legit?

 

Thanks!

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I know this is not what you want to hear but this would not be the first time someone comes across an article like you posted and thinks "wow a perfect candidate for a named Purple Heart group". Then he has an original WWII Purple Heart engraved with that name. The blackened letters are always a red flag for me because the metal inside the fresh engraging is still shiny so rather than wait for it to oxidizes naturally they hide it with India ink or paint or what ever. People often fall into the trap of thinking if a little is good then a lot is better so they add extras like the rank and branch. Documentation dose not mean it is real it just means someone did their homework, remember if you can find it they can find it. By adding a few dollars worth of engraving (if they can't do it themself) they will triple of quadruple the price.

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BigJohn#3RD

Hello ER,

Army Air Corp engraved Air Medals and DFCs awarded to KIA and often POW returning veterans with Rank above the name of the recipient and A.C. below the name. At the same time, the Purple Heart remains standard First name, middle initial, and last name.

 

Here is a photo of a WW2 Army Air Corp medal group Air Medal and Purple Heart issued to the Next of Kin.

 

 

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Here is what the National Archives & Records Administrations has about William Stacey. Based on seeing William Stacey listed as a Died Non Battle (DNB) casualty, I would say he did not receive the Purple Heart.

 

https://www.wwiimemorial.com/Registry/plaque_wardept.aspx?honoreeID=1129010

 

Here is what is on the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC) shows for William Stacey. You'll see that under "Awards:" none are listed. Had William Stacey received a Purple Heart it would listed there.

 

https://www.wwiimemorial.com/Registry/plaque_cemetery.aspx?honoreeID=684176

 

I know this is not the news you were hoping for, but at least now you know.

 

Bruce Linz

 

 

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ErwinRommel1940

WOW! A flurry of responses to that question...

 

QED4 - Thank you for your input. The addition of the information was not a justification that the heart was correct, but rather a piece of evidence that lead to my first question and then the second. I appreciate the detailed, evidence based information you provide in the middle of your response, indicating why this heart is incorrect.

 

BigJohn#3rd - Thank you for the picture, makes sense based on what I have read about KIA PH.

 

tdogchristy90 - This is the information to which I was referring in my first post. This article doesn't show privately engraved hearts in as much detail. So my question would've been, could this have been a privately named heart. Based on other's responses, the answer to that question is no. Is there a good source on privately engraved hearts?

 

Bruce Linz - Thank you for the evidence based responses. I would never have guess he would have been ineligible for a PH. This is why I joined this forum, to learn.

 

A follow up question - No one has used the term "fake" when addressing the naming. Is there a reason for that? If it is not correct, then isn't it inherently fake?

 

Again, I appreciate everyone's input, I am new to collecting US items. Just like all other militaria, there is a learning curve.

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dhcoleterracina

Typically people on this forum are kinder with using the "F" word than say some on the WAF (German Forum). That said, it looks like the work of a guy who engraved medals fraudulently, usually Purple Hearts and would accompany them with a news article (many times laminated). I'm trying to remember his name..."BobVN" but I'm not positive. The other issue was that hundreds, perhaps thousands of Hearts came home and soldiers had their jewelers engrave them, sometimes beautifully. These are great and legitimate examples just not "government engraved" examples. Your example seems engraved to deceive but that's just an opinion.

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Typically people on this forum are kinder with using the "F" word than say some on the WAF (German Forum). That said, it looks like the work of a guy who engraved medals fraudulently, usually Purple Hearts and would accompany them with a news article (many times laminated). I'm trying to remember his name..."BobVN" but I'm not positive. The other issue was that hundreds, perhaps thousands of Hearts came home and soldiers had their jewelers engrave them, sometimes beautifully. These are great and legitimate examples just not "government engraved" examples. Your example seems engraved to deceive but that's just an opinion.

+1 ! 100% made to deceive .

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ErwinRommel1940

dhcoleterracina - I appreciate the reponse regarding the "F" word. Just further confirming what others have already said, this PH did come with laminated news articles. I suspect you are correct about the origin of this forgery.

 

scottplen - Strait to the point, I like it. Thanks!

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I'm very careful to call things "fake", unless I know who the person was who faked the award - engraved it with the intention to deceive. For example, BOBVN3 had his "trademarks" on the Purple Hearts that he would sell. Same goes for several others who have faked awards in the past.

 

That said, aside from known fakes, I use the term that it's "not a government engraved example" because the reverse of the medal was created for engraving and families or wounded veterans over the decades have had information engraved on them. Without knowing the background of the medal, I can't say if this one might have been done by the family at some point in the past (perhaps they were very hurt over the fact they should have received one, so they acquired a Purple Heart and had it engraved) or perhaps some other reasonable explanation. It's not the engraving of the "known" fakers, so I'm reluctant to call it an outright "fake". It's not a government engraved example, and for a posthumous award, that's what it should be (though as it was pointed out above, he was a DNB, so it's most likely he didn't receive a Purple Heart...)

 

In the long run, it is what it is...a privately engraved Purple Heart to a recipient who should not have received one. An outright fake, created with the intention to deceive? I can't say. That said, it should not be sold (if you were planning on parting with it) as a posthumous or officially government engraved Purple Heart, but what it is with a caveat.

 

My personal opinion...

 

Dave

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Just to add one more thing... It's pretty easy in the world of, say, WW2 German collecting to call a "fake" a "fake". Once the war was over, there were no families painting up SS helmets to remember the loved ones that they lost (or maybe they did, but it would be strange...not to mention illegal...) So if you find an SS helmet that's not an original one, it's most definitely a "fake".

 

In contrast, a medal like this could have potentially been engraved by a grieving family...just as much as it could have been done by a guy in his garage hoping to make a buck. It's hard to tell and without knowing for sure, it's tough to make definitive statements about it, other than the fact that it's not official government engraving.

 

Hope that clarifies things. :)

Dave

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