T.O. Wing help

[MAP1]

Not a big US collector but have been slowly building up my US awards and Wings collection.

 

Needless to say, I am no expert.

 

Here is a set of T.O. Wings I might have the opportunity to purchase but want to be sure they are good. (I'm also looking at the Observer wings by A E Co Utica so any help with this one as well would be appreciated too)

 

The T. O. Wings are unmarked with the exception of "Sterling" under the pin.

 

Are these WW2 era? Re-strikes?

 

Appreciate any feedback.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[MAP1]

And the backside

 

 

[The Rooster]

Hey , Cool wings. The reason nobody is commenting on them I think is because.........

Number 1... TO wings on here are the topic of much discussion and debate.

I am not the resident wing expert. Ive been learning from the good folks on here who are and the vast amount of material

contained on the forum here dealing with wings.I like to consider myself an advanced beginer... so after my disclaimer this is what I see.

The AE.Co. Wing looks strange to me in that it has raised brand markings but sterling looks incised in your pic.

Ive got AE.Co. wings with all sorts of markings. Some with the aeco raised on top and sterling stamped deep in so maybe its nothing.

And now is were I step out onto the branch so to speak.....

The TO Wing..

Hmmmmmmmm......I dont know... I kinda like it. Looks a heck of a lot better than the huge amount of Meyer restrikes being passed off as authentic on ebay right now. Seems like tons of sellers are putting them out there.

The TO ...... I kinda like it.

In fact its a dead ringer for this one here on Bobs Fantastic site!!!

In this link the pin is covering the sterling hall mark.

But its there same as your Original post.

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/technicalobserver/vargasaafto.shtml

 

 

 

Third one down on the main page....

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/usaaftechnicalobserver.shtml

 

AE.Co looks good...

Looks like Im seeing a date under the pin on the right side on the top wing.

Real faint 7/44 ?????

Anyone else see it ?

[The Rooster]

****** Please remember ...... it is okay to link to Bobs site ( Thank you kindly to Bob ) but please refrain from posting images from his site.******

 

Thank you.

[pfrost]

both have potential. I can't really see any obvious issues, but I also really can not get a good view of the wings.

 

Some of those TO wings are a tough call. You kind of have to look at lot of frogs before you find that prince. So you kind of have to decide how many toads you want to kiss....

[The Rooster]

I like em better than the garbage thats being hawked on ebay right now.

Theres a flood of meyer TO restrikes on there.

Anyone else see the 7/44 under the pin on the top wing on the backside....? The AE. Co.

On the right side below the pin.

 

Real Faint 7/44 looks like or 7/4 something... ???.

[MAP1]

Thanks guys. These came out of what I think is an older collection although not sure how long they were all together. Saw them at a show, it was a bit crazy and I only held them for a few seconds.

 

Though not definitive by any measure, they did have have nice patina and what appeared to be honest wear patterns

 

But I know this area has just as many restrikes and fakes as German awards LoL

 

I wish I had better photos but can ask if there is a date on the A&E.

 

Don't mind taking a chance (the dealer is a good guy and accepts returns) but want to avoid that if possible as these aren't cheap

 

I'll look closer at the links too. I looked the other day but not really sure what the key points to look for were.

 

In the meantime anymore info, observations or feedback would be great.

 

Thanks again

[The Rooster]

Can anyone else see the 7/44 im talking about ???

Patrick is a very knowledgeable wing collector.

Patrick is at the advanced expert wing collector level. Its a good sign he has no heartburn

on these wings. Plus the TO looks like its a match for the wing on Bobs site.

If you can get more pictures ...please do so.

 

For examples of fake TO wings... Look on ebay right now and you will see a bunch of Fake Meyer restrike TO wings for sale at ridiculously

high prices. Theres a US observer wing on there now suposedly a 1920's with the US in the observer roundel.

Meyer restrike people are bidding on it.

Thank you.

[MAP1]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the quick replies.

 

I know German awards, helmets, etc. Etc. But this is new to me. But am well award how difficult it can be to make a call on photos alone and then not even great photos

 

I'll try to get better photos in the meantime. No rush on these but I do want to revert with a Yes or No before they "go" to the SoS

[Costa]

I always thought AMICO hallmarked TO wings were ww2. from what I understand TO wings came out late in the war and AMICO was the producer.

[The Rooster]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the quick replies.

 

I know German awards, helmets, etc. Etc. But this is new to me. But am well award how difficult it can be to make a call on photos alone and then not even great photos

 

I'll try to get better photos in the meantime. No rush on these but I do want to revert with a Yes or No before they "go" to the SoS

I cant start a new topic on these.. Since the hack a couple weeks ago its problematic.

So here is a link to what I think is a stinker on ebay hoodwinking the unsuspecting.

Meyer restrike unless Im incorrect?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1930s-Style-USAAF-Aircraft-Observer-Wing-in-Sterling-by-NS-Meyer-New-York/233483019356?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D02c5cb283f4144498e98c0b15df7565b%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D233482243657%26itm%3D233483019356%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

 

 

Can anyone else see the 7/44 im refering to ???

In post #1 the aeco wing?

Buehler?

 

Look at the back of the aeco wing under the pin on the right side. In Post #2

Am I hallucinating ?

[MAP1]

I do see the shadow of the 7/4? now. Very faint but it's there.

 

So I guess the jury is out in the TO? Less to it being original, but more to the time period?

 

Thanks again

[The Rooster]

Thats Interesting !

[The Rooster]

I do see the shadow of the 7/4? now. Very faint but it's there.

 

So I guess the jury is out in the TO? Less to it being original, but more to the time period?

 

Thanks again

 

 

I think the jury will always be out concearning TO Wings !

 

On the AECO looks like it might be the numbers 7/44 and maybe a big 6 at the end ?

 

 

Heres an example of Technical Observer wing discussions......

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/324923-new-holy-grail-of-wings-for-me/?hl=%2Btechnical+%2Bobserver

[MAP1]

Thanks for the link. I will read and absorb when I get home from work. Then I'll be armed to make a decision.

 

Nice manipulation of the photos. It is much clearer now

[5thwingmarty]

By the way, T/O wings were authorized in 1940 at the same time as the senior balloon pilot, balloon observer (with the O) and command pilot wings. My understanding is they were just not popular with the pilots who would prefer to wear their pilot wings, and not buy T/O wings instead.

 

Marty

[Costa]

here is 1 I have.

[MAP1]

Thanks Costa.

 

So is the consensus on the TO I posted is that a) they are correct, we are not sure if they are WW2 era (+/- a few years) .... or c) if they are fake/restrike. Or that there really is no agreement?

 

I'm the dumb one in the room here so I probably need things spelled out as if I was in grade school. LoL

 

Don't care either way. So my feelings won't be hurt . That is why I posted them in the first place

 

Thanks again to everyone for their input!

 

Regards,

 

Michael

[ram957]

I do see the 744...I've never seen that on a wing before...

[Kropotkin]

On the subject of the rarity of the TO rating in terms of numbers out there, I would imagine that govt. contracts for the manufacture of said ratings during wartime procurement meant relatively large numbers being ordered, regardless of whether they were preferred or worn by those who qualified.

 

I doubt they are as ultra-rare in terms of WW2-era originals as we think. Just a thought.

[The Rooster]

On the other hand... Just apossibility that when they found that the wings were not selling....

Might be alot of companies scrapped the ones they had too many of ?

Might be why real ones are or seem scarce ?

[MAP1]

On the other hand... Just apossibility that when they found that the wings were not selling....

Might be alot of companies scrapped the ones they had too many of ?

Might be why real ones are or seem scarce ?

 

They are silver so it would make sense to melt them for scrap value if they were leftover.

[Kropotkin]

I would have thought many would have been GI and hanging around QM stores, as a lot of these wings are only marked sterling and without maker’s hallmarks suggesting govt. contract rather than private purchase items. Again, only an assumption.