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M1917 8th Div Painted on Ebay


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#1 Chris Miller

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:00 AM

I am a new collector of WW1 Helmets and Uniforms.  I have been watching this helmet.  I would really like to see what other members think to see if I am getter any smarter at this!

 

https://www.ebay.com...3ff846211|iid:1

 

 

Reasons to buy:

1.  Darn good looking lid

2. I don't have one.

3.  Wife has not threatened divorce yet.

 

Reasons not to buy:

1.  Looks too good.

2.  No bids and on third re-list

3.  Insignia doest line up with the sanded area.

4.  Edge not shiny enough

5. liner label is too white

 

Again, just looking to see if I'm doing this right at this point.  Thank you for any feedback.

 

Chris

 

 



#2 BILL THE PATCH

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:06 AM

Overpriced IMHO, it's a nice one

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#3 aef1917

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:14 AM

It's fine, but overpriced by at least $100.



#4 thunderbolts45

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:13 AM

It's a nice helmet but it is overpriced. If this helmet was from a division that actually saw combat, like the 1st and 3rd divisions, than I can see it selling for $300

#5 museums

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:22 AM

Looks to be Sgt Daniel S. Perkins, 2370441, of Springfield, MA.  He shipped overseas in Co A rather than H (which might give you a research option to date it better).  Hard telling when the Div insignia was painted on, looks like he got there rather late and and didn't put the helmet to much field use. What it's worth to you depends on your interest in what it represents to your collection. (And don't mind the sellers info- they got the wrong war obvisouly).


Edited by museums, 14 January 2020 - 10:25 AM.


#6 museums

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:42 AM

Doing a bit more looking, the Order of Battle I saw didn't list the 319th Engineers as seeing action - but the American Battle Monuments Commission lists several from it as MIA in early October 1918, so they must have gotten into something. Again though- it depends on what motivates you about the helmet - is it the looks and condition, or the story?  Perkins may have been in the Philippines before heading to France, so might be fun for you to research him a bit before making a decision.



#7 aef1917

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:02 AM

Most of the division was quarantined in New York due to the Spanish Flu.  The 319th Engineers and a couple of other small units made it overseas starting in late October 1918, but they were too late to see action.



#8 MAW

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:42 AM

My first instinct is that I'm not a fan of it....but I might change my mind if I could see it in hand.



#9 Chris Miller

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:45 PM

Thank you all for commenting. It appears I havent learned much yet!

Price aside, Im paranoid about buying fakes so Im picking on this one to learn what you experts look for whether your holding a helmet or looking at pictures.

I did contact the seller. Here is the reply I received:
Hello Chris. We have this item listed for a consignor. I have described the helmet as best as possible with the information she was able to provide. She got it from her brother along with a collection of bayonets. I cannot SWEAR that it had not been altered, or repainted. However, I also cannot swear that it has.

They did send me some additional pictures in hi res. I have attached one of the front. Hopefully it doesnt lose too much detail from shrinking the file size down. Ive circled an area that looks to me like the black was colored with magic marker.

As for The liner, can they look that good after 100 years?

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#10 aef1917

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:08 PM

The insignia is the same as on one of mine, and I've seen it on other helmets and gas mask bags as well.  I'm pretty sure it was done with a stencil.

 

Reproduction liners are nowhere close to the real thing.



#11 Chris Miller

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:09 PM

Thank you, AEF.

And thanks to all the other posters as well. I guess the logic I was using for judging this isn’t sound.

Ps when maw said “I’m not a fan of it” is that militia collecting code for something or is that to be taken literally?

I warned you guys I was new! And I hope I’m not being pest with all the questions!

#12 doyler

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:29 PM

It's a nice helmet but it is overpriced. If this helmet was from a division that actually saw combat, like the 1st and 3rd divisions, than I can see it selling for $300

 

 

Combat or not...the 8th Inf helmets and uniforms don't surface that often in my opinion.One of the harder units to find in my area for some reason.I know my dad had only one 8th in his collection and it was a variation of the standard patch.Here we often saw 88th,33rd,89th,2nd Division,1st Div.,3rd Army,1st army variants....Most common were the 88th.Occasionally the 4th division.A few Railway,Advanced Sector.Found one Siberia over the years right out of the estate of the vet.

 

Helmet looks right to me.Cant say I have seen fakers scraping off the textured finish then painting.Most would or do just paint over the finish.

 

The $600 is not realistic but $250-$300....not out of the realm for a really nice ID'd helmet in my thinking.


Edited by doyler, 14 January 2020 - 09:31 PM.


#13 manayunkman

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:45 PM

You can always email an offer.

#14 dhcoleterracina

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 08:45 AM

Chris,  instead of a helmet from ebay, where fakes flourish, have you visited Bay State Militaria? They usually have division painted WW1 helmets although I haven't looked in a while. I would trust their hands on opinion of the helmets they sell and their prices seem fair. You could buy a more common division painted helmet, one who served in the trenches, for much less. In the end handling these gives you the best experience, pay less, keep wife happy...win, win, big win. Good luck and welcome to the forum.  



#15 Chris Miller

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:26 AM

Thanks dhcoleterracina!  I just checked Bay State out and I like what I see.  I am going to check out all of the advertisers here on this forum now that I've discovered where they were listed.  Thanks again everyone!



#16 Bob Hudson

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:38 AM


 looks to me like the black was colored with magic marker.

 

Black markers almost always have  blue/purplish tint, not actual black.



#17 1canpara

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 01:40 PM

Chris,  instead of a helmet from ebay, where fakes flourish, have you visited Bay State Militaria? They usually have division painted WW1 helmets although I haven't looked in a while. I would trust their hands on opinion of the helmets they sell and their prices seem fair. You could buy a more common division painted helmet, one who served in the trenches, for much less. In the end handling these gives you the best experience, pay less, keep wife happy...win, win, big win. Good luck and welcome to the forum.  

+1 👍🏼



#18 Thor996

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 03:55 PM

Thanks dhcoleterracina!  I just checked Bay State out and I like what I see.  I am going to check out all of the advertisers here on this forum now that I've discovered where they were listed.  Thanks again everyone!

 

Keep in mind too that these WW1 painted helmets were painted after the end of the war. 



#19 aef1917

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 04:00 PM

 

Keep in mind too that these WW1 painted helmets were painted after the end of the war. 

That's an overly broad generalization that is not in line with the facts,



#20 Thor996

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 04:06 PM

That's an overly broad generalization that is not in line with the facts,

 

It's my understanding that the majority of the ww1 painted helmets were done by troops after cessation of hostilitlies, if that's not true, then please elaborate on your statement. 


Edited by Thor996, 15 January 2020 - 04:08 PM.


#21 patches

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 04:50 PM

 

It's my understanding that the majority of the ww1 painted helmets were done by troops after cessation of hostilitlies, if that's not true, then please elaborate on your statement. 

That's my understanding as well, Army, Corps, Divisional shoulder patches wise, simply because these shoulder patches were adopted practically when the war was ending with some even being adopted after the armistice.



#22 hink441

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 05:20 PM

 
Keep in mind too that these WW1 painted helmets were painted after the end of the war. 


I think there is evidence of some Divisions that had helmets and gear painted before Armistice Day. The 35th and the 80th Divisions come to mind. I believe both of these Divisions had helmets painted in use before the end of the war.

Chris

#23 Bob Hudson

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 05:30 PM

I think there is evidence of some Divisions that had helmets and gear painted before Armistice Day. The 35th and the 80th Divisions come to mind. I believe both of these Divisions had helmets painted in use before the end of the war.

Chris

 

See http://www.usmilitar...ainted-helmets/



#24 patches

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:06 PM

I think there is evidence of some Divisions that had helmets and gear painted before Armistice Day. The 35th and the 80th Divisions come to mind. I believe both of these Divisions had helmets painted in use before the end of the war.

Chris

Yes Hink but the window for that is really small wouldn't you say, the 80th Div like a lot of division's had their shoulder patch approved near the end of October, 20 October, now considering when word got down and around, and even the idea of painting them on the fronts or sides of helmets would be a while, what 5 days, a week, a week and a half? , that's the shoulder patches, and most divison's were still in combat We know the 80th Div has a whole array of tactical unit Insignia on the books, approved when it was still in America in late April 1918, but not shoulder patches., I don't know the extent of the wear of these Tac Signs, very little photos of the division are around where helmets are worn, all one sees is helmets in collections on this forum with the makings, which were probably done up after 11 November, this topic HERE shows them, as well as original examples in collections, note that thee is not one period photo of these being worn, if anyone has a photo of these tac signs being worn from July 1918 till before 11 Nov please post it.

 

The 35th Div, yes we see that the sign used, the so called Santa Fe sign was used as a sign as of late March 1918 when it was still in the states for unit baggage and other divisional property, and some helmet markings with the Santa Fe seen, but that would be a rarity with the divisions, and and in my estimation shouldn't be used a a guide that since the 35th Div did it in the late summer of 1918, then all the divisions must of done it  For reference Their shoulder patch based on the Santa Fe sign was approved a few days later then the 80th's, on 29 October.



#25 hink441

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:42 PM

Hi Patches,

I don't think these Divisions (35th and 80th) waited for any approval. I believe the "TAC marks" were used to mark unit gear during the war. I agree with you and would also like to see photo evidence of the 80th using unit marks during the war.

Hopefully someone will find some pics.

Chris


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