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M1 Garand Cartouche question


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#1 jmd62

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 11:23 AM

Hey guys,

 

I was looking at a Garand stock for sale with the stamps shown below. Any thoughts in regards to their authenticity? The order is backward from what I've seen as well, but maybe there were exceptions?

 

Thanks!

James 

 

Capture.JPG



#2 mdk0911

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 11:35 AM

I'm not liking what I'm seeing - don't like the bottom of the S as it has 2 lines?

 

here is an example

Attached Images

  • M1Garand1243-04.jpg
  • sagaws.jpg

Edited by mdk0911, 12 December 2019 - 11:45 AM.


#3 jmd62

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 12:22 PM

It almost looks like it was stamped twice, correct?


Edited by jmd62, 12 December 2019 - 12:22 PM.


#4 mdk0911

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 07:11 AM

if a double strike then why only at the bottom - maybe others can chime in



#5 everforward

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 08:02 AM

On the top picture, only the 'S' would appear to be double-struck. I'd want to see some other examples but at first glance the top picture doesn't look too bad, even though the order of the stampings is reversed. It would be nice to see the whole stock on this one to give an opinion....



#6 jmd62

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 08:06 AM

Here ya go, thanks!

Capture.JPG



#7 everforward

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 08:41 AM

Here ya go, thanks!

attachicon.gifCapture.JPG

 

Okay. IMHO, so far so good, but hard to say without actually handling the wood.....is there a shot of the 'P' on the wrist...?
 



#8 jmd62

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 08:51 AM

Sure thing  : )

Capture.JPG



#9 everforward

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 09:33 AM

The P looks pretty legit.....Well, I'd want to see what others might say but to my eyes it seems okay. It all looks pretty good.....I think the stock has been worked on a little to clean it up to a degree but all in all it seems okay. Is there a small ordnance wheel stamped into the heel of the stock...?



#10 jmd62

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for your take, much appreciated. Yes, there is the little ordnance wheel stamped in the heel, but pretty worn. 



#11 mdk0911

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 10:25 AM

If the S shows a double stamp then why not the other letters - the stamp mold has ALL the letters and not just the S.

So did someone in 1943 to 1945 had only a S stamp  - I highly doubt that

so wouldn't we see some double stamp on the A and  the G and the A and the W and the border ?? 


Edited by mdk0911, 13 December 2019 - 10:30 AM.


#12 everforward

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 12:51 PM

If the S shows a double stamp then why not the other letters - the stamp mold has ALL the letters and not just the S.

So did someone in 1943 to 1945 had only a S stamp  - I highly doubt that

so wouldn't we see some double stamp on the A and  the G and the A and the W and the border ?? 

 

Well, that's the question. When I look at the photo, all I can see on the cartouche is the S with a portion of a double imprint.

 

The 'why' could be simply how whoever had the mallet and the dies didn't strike it or position it well enough, who knows.

 

Some of these cartouches are really deep on one end and barely show up on the other.....it all came down to how steady the workers hand was when it was done, and many look like they were done in haste....close enough was all they needed.
 



#13 everforward

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 01:33 PM

Thanks for your take, much appreciated. Yes, there is the little ordnance wheel stamped in the heel, but pretty worn. 

 

Ok, good. Pretty sure most if not all of the GAW stocks had that as well.



#14 jmd62

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 01:34 PM

Thanks again!



#15 Persian Gulf Command

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 07:10 PM

I need to point out that the top of the "G" also shows a double strike on the inside of the top loop. This indicate a slight "bounce" that occurred to the stamp in this area when the imprint was made. This is likely where the most force was transferred during the hammer strike. 



#16 jmd62

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 08:33 PM

Good eye!

#17 ottodog8

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 07:50 AM

I would have doubts. Especially in the pic of the whole stock, the stamp looks awfully crisp in relation to the overall condition of the stock. 

 

Steve



#18 jmd62

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 11:37 AM

These M1 Garand stocks, with cartouches, sure are a tough call these days.

#19 collector

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 11:53 AM

I've always thought this site has the best info on real vs. fake. Good stuff in there, describes the fake stamps we all see everywhere now.

 

http://www.trfindley...gsnstmpsm1.html


Edited by collector, 15 December 2019 - 11:53 AM.


#20 Mike D

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:53 PM

I'm with Otto, and it almost looks like a rebuild stamp further back on the butt? Does look like other signs of an overstamp. Seek out Rick B on other forums. His word would be the only one I would trust.

Mike

#21 jmd62

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 02:06 PM

Thanks Mike! I was contemplating buying it but it has since sold. No big though, Id rather find a one looker in the end. In the mean time Ill keep learning : )

#22 Orlando

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 05:12 PM

I've always thought this site has the best info on real vs. fake. Good stuff in there, describes the fake stamps we all see everywhere now.

 

http://www.trfindley...gsnstmpsm1.html

 

 

He uses"fake" stamps to do a so called restoartaion. He does not have original stamps



#23 costa

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 05:36 PM

MAN, WHEN IT COMES TO STOCKS, YOU BETTER WATCH IT. I HAVE SEEN MANY GET ROYALLY SCREWED BUYING REPRO CRAP PASSED OFF AS THE REAL DEAL.



#24 jmd62

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 06:05 PM

Thanks guys, it sure is a minefield.

#25 arnhem44mad

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Posted 22 December 2019 - 05:37 AM

Look on the pistol grip for the small cross cannons. This will help you determine.

If there's no sign then 100% repro. Otherwise you need to take the butt plate off and have a look for stamps on the butt under the plate.

Scott


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