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Great Grandfather's old WWI and Spanish American War guns


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#1 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 11:45 AM

My father, who died this past August, had in his possession some very old guns that we are told had belonged to his grandfather, my great grandfather, from his service in the Navy during the Spanish American war and WWI.

 

My mother having moved to assisted living we will be selling the house at some point in the future and at that time or sooner I will need to learn what I need to do to move these items and store them at my house as family heirlooms. (No ammunition)

 

I expect that I will need to learn what these firearms actually are if I am required to get a permit and license. I am in Massachusetts.

 

If anyone has any information on what the items pictured below are, and the chances that they can be declared antiques, I'd be very appreciative.

 

Other than that I have been told they they all came from the two wars above during my great grandfather's service in the Navy, the only story I have been told is that the pistol if from the Spanish American war and that it was ffrom a Spanish officer that my great grandfather disarmed while in Cuba.

 

I guess it will take a few posts to get them all posted

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#2 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 11:45 AM

More

 

 

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#3 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 11:46 AM

Last photo

 

 

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#4 lfwises

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 01:42 PM

I'm no expert but tne first picture looks like the Winchester Model 1890 I inherited from my great grandfather, Mine is a .22WRF but I'm told they were also made in .22 LR. Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#5 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 02:17 PM

I'm no expert but tne first picture looks like the Winchester Model 1890 I inherited from my great grandfather, Mine is a .22WRF but I'm told they were also made in .22 LR. Steve

 

 

Cool Thanks! I do know that it's a .22. It sure looks like it.


Edited by crazyfingers, 24 November 2019 - 02:17 PM.


#6 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 02:20 PM

It appears my son took this photo of the second gun in my second post. I've googled it and the serial number. If I'm finding the right thing then it would be made in 1918.

 

What confuses me is that when I google the Springfield Armory Model 1903, almost all the photos show the wood under the barrel extending almost the entire length but in my photo there is almost foot where there is no wood under the barrel.

 

Hmm.

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Edited by crazyfingers, 24 November 2019 - 02:23 PM.


#7 US Military Guy

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 02:47 PM

It appears my son took this photo of the second gun in my second post. I've googled it and the serial number. If I'm finding the right thing then it would be made in 1918.

 

What confuses me is that when I google the Springfield Armory Model 1903, almost all the photos show the wood under the barrel extending almost the entire length but in my photo there is almost foot where there is no wood under the barrel.

 

Hmm.

 

Your Model 1903 Springfield stock has been "sporterized".  The stock as well as the upper handguard has been cut.  You most likely will find the manufacturer date on the top of the barrel behind the front site. 

 

The .30-40 Krag (the first rifle in the second post) has also had the stock cut.



#8 warroom1

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 03:26 PM

restock the rifles . they are to good to leave sporterzed. my take



#9 US Military Guy

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 04:29 PM

restock the rifles . they are to good to leave sporterzed. my take

 

I agree. 

Sporterized with cut wood = fix it. 

Sporterized with cut metal = :(



#10 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 04:39 PM

Thanks very much for the help so far! 3 of the 5 ID'd.

Interesting about sporterized. If I was a collector or wanted to sell them I'd probably unsporterize them. But neither is actually my goal.

What I know of their history is that they were all originally owned by my great grandfather. He served in WWI and I'm told he brought them home after the war. My grandfather was born in 1906 and went into the Navy in 1926 and died in the first couple months of 1942.

My uncle tells me that they had not been used any later than 1942. So either my great grandfather or my grandfather sporterized them between the 2 world wars.

I am keeping these as part of our family history. They are the only physical artifacts we have of my great grandfather.

My family is big on preserving family history.

So I probably would want to preserve them as they are.

I do need to make sure that as my dad's estate is settled I do what I need to do to legally transport them from my parents old house, which we don't plan to sell right away, to my house and that I can legally keep them for future generations of the family. They would not be used.

I don't believe that they were ever registered in Massachusetts. My dad got them from my grandmother over 30 years ago. He took them from Maine to Massachusetts. He told me that he did once take them down to the local police station to inquire if he needed to do anything. The police basically told him not to worry about it.

#11 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 04:43 PM

 

I agree. 

Sporterized with cut wood = fix it. 

Sporterized with cut metal = :(

 

I absolutely get your point of view.
 



#12 thorin6

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 06:28 PM

The Krag has also had the barrel cut and a M1903 front sight added.  Leave it as is, not restorable unless you replace the barrel (an expensive process).

The shotgun is a M12 in civilian configuration.

The pistol looks like a Smith & Wesson Top Break Double Action in .44 Caliber, but without SN and better pictures it's just a guess at this point.  Look for the markings on the side of the barrel.



#13 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 06:40 PM

Thanks for that information.

 

M12 Shotgun. I just read was made from 1912 to 1964. Without date or serial number I don't know how to piece together a story.

 

I read that the Smith & Wesson .44 was also made in Spain and used by the Spanish in the Spanish American war.

https://en.wikipedia...4_Sistema_ONÁ_(%22S&W_Model_7%22)

 

I guess that link doesn't fully work. It's on the same page under

11mm Orbea Hermanos y Cia. M1884 Sistema ONÁ ("S&W Model 7")

 

Yes with all the stuff with my dad dying and moving my mom to assisted living, getting handle of the estate, I'm getting back to some things like this that I will have to take care of eventually. Next time I have the time over to my parent's house I'll dig them out again and carefully look for and photograph markings, numbers, dates, etc...

 

I go over about every other Sunday just to check the place. I don't always have a lot of time to hang around given 3 kids and a mom to go visit.


Edited by crazyfingers, 24 November 2019 - 06:43 PM.


#14 crazyfingers

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 07:07 PM

I'm wondering if anyone would have an educated guess what these 5 guns individually might be worth? I'll do my own research myself of course but I'm starting with next to zero knowledge. I have no intent to sell them. As I mentioned it's my job to keep them safe to pass along to the next generation of the family. But at some point I'm going to need to inventory anything of value for estate taxes. 



#15 caseloadr

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 07:49 PM

Your 30-40 Krag retails about 250 to 350 if it has a good barrel, Your 1903 is 200 to 450 depending on barrel condition. These are est. base on gun show pricing as I look at a lot of these guns. The Krags are not moving as well as the 1903's. You can both stocks and barrels for the 1903s fairly easy. I had one done a couple of years ago. If the Krags  are still original they command a better price. Same with 1903's


Edited by caseloadr, 24 November 2019 - 07:50 PM.


#16 crazyfingers

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 09:59 AM

Thanks! The smaller the better if I have to pay tax!



#17 thorin6

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 03:14 PM

Your 30-40 Krag retails about 250 to 350 if it has a good barrel, Your 1903 is 200 to 450 depending on barrel condition. These are est. base on gun show pricing as I look at a lot of these guns. The Krags are not moving as well as the 1903's. You can both stocks and barrels for the 1903s fairly easy. I had one done a couple of years ago. If the Krags  are still original they command a better price. Same with 1903's

 

I think that''s pretty close on the Krag and M1903.  The shotgun would be in the range $250-350.  The pistol, if Spanish without provenance, around $200 (Spanish pistols don't bring much on the market in the US).  Don't know about the .22 may have to look in the Blue Book of Values.
 



#18 crazyfingers

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:30 PM

Thanks.

This question is probably heresy on this discussion board but.... what's the best way to dispose of a small box of old ammunition? I don't know what they are. I'll investigate further before I do anything. Will take pictures. The box is about the size of 3 cigarette packs. Probably fewer than 24 items.

My uncle suggests finding a bridge across a river but I'd rather be legal.

#19 Bill in VA

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:48 AM

Thanks.

This question is probably heresy on this discussion board but.... what's the best way to dispose of a small box of old ammunition? I don't know what they are. I'll investigate further before I do anything. Will take pictures. The box is about the size of 3 cigarette packs. Probably fewer than 24 items.

My uncle suggests finding a bridge across a river but I'd rather be legal.

Sell it. (Or give it away.) People collect cartridges and accessories just as much as guns. Antique ammunition is highly collectible.


Edited by Bill in VA, 26 November 2019 - 03:49 AM.


#20 skautdog

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 06:52 AM

Whatever the monetary value and/or full nomenclature of the firearms are I would just cherish having my great grandfather's firearms. Personally I would keep and maintain them just as my great grandfather had them. I would learn and document as much as I could about him and the firearms and keep them in the family. To me, the intrinsic value would be priceless.

Just my opinion. Everyone has to do what's best for them. Good luck with your firearms.

Ken



#21 crazyfingers

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 07:52 AM

Whatever the monetary value and/or full nomenclature of the firearms are I would just cherish having my great grandfather's firearms. Personally I would keep and maintain them just as my great grandfather had them. I would learn and document as much as I could about him and the firearms and keep them in the family. To me, the intrinsic value would be priceless.

Just my opinion. Everyone has to do what's best for them. Good luck with your firearms.

Ken

 

Thanks. There is no doubt that I'll keep the firearms to pass along to the next generations when the time comes. I just need to do it legally.

 

As to the old ammo, I do not want ammunition in the house. That I need to find a way to get off of my hands but also legally.



#22 skautdog

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:42 AM

Try this:

http://www.massreloa...egulations.html

 

I would go to the nearest police station and just ask in a hypothetical situation.

 

In the interim I would consider having a friend who has a MA firearm permit store the ammunition and do all the research on the matter I could. Someone above mentioned there is a market for old ammunition and I agree, there definitely is. In a state like MA just need to, as you know, dot ALL the i's and cross ALL the t's.

 

Difficult to imagine MA was a hot bed for the American revolution and freedom, and ultimately the 2nd Amendment.

 

Good luck,

 

Ken



#23 crazyfingers

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 06:36 PM

So we have taken mom home from assisted living to her old house for Thanksgiving.

 

I had an opportunity to look further.

 

First .44 revolver that is a Spanish made knock off that I linked to earlier.

 

Imprinted on top is the Spanish model name. (photo below)  Serial number 1072 (Photos below)

 

Next the .30-40 Krag has a serial number of 242290 which makes it's manufacturing date 1900. (Photo below)

 

The M12 Shotgun serial number is 215524 making it manufactured in 1919. Have not attached photo for this.

 

 

More posts to come I got quite a surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#24 crazyfingers

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 06:55 PM

The Winchester Model 1890 .22 Short rifle has a serial number of 599761 making it produced between 1917 and 1919. (no photos)

 

Next I went to go find the ammo box I mentioned. My memory was faulty. It was larger than I recalled. Inside was a square maroon box. Inside the box. OMG another gun. The photo below looks to be a Cold Model 1908 Vest Pocket 25 caliber pistol with clip and clip with bullets in it! 

https://en.m.wikiped...908_Vest_Pocket

 

And a box of bullets. Serial number 121730 making the manufacture date 1915. (Photo below)

 

More to come.

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  • 2019 11 28 12 21 53a.jpg


#25 crazyfingers

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 07:09 PM

Last there was ammunition .30 bullets. I guess for the Krok?

 

And 3 boxes of .22

 

 

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