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101st patch, what do you think?


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#1 Kansas Raider

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 08:19 PM

Hi everybody, saw this coat in a shop today. The 101st patch, the eagle does not have a tongue. What do you think?

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#2 BILL THE PATCH

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 08:38 PM

The soldier probably never even noticed the tongue missing, hard to tell if it's post war or WW2 , I'm learning towards post war

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#3 Ray42

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 08:52 PM

My guess would be 50's. In the early 1950's the 101st had it's airborne status removed and was a training unit. Whenever I see a 101st patch or helmet decal without the tab I think that it is a safe bet that it is from that era. Still it looks like a nice uniform to a WW2 vet, does his pacific ribbon have assult credit on it?



#4 MilitaryPicker1941

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:26 PM

My guess would be 50's. In the early 1950's the 101st had it's airborne status removed and was a training unit. Whenever I see a 101st patch or helmet decal without the tab I think that it is a safe bet that it is from that era. Still it looks like a nice uniform to a WW2 vet, does his pacific ribbon have assult credit on it?

From the photo it looks like it has assault credit to me (the arrowhead looks like its in the middle). Also the 37th looks Japanese made.

#5 Ray42

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:39 PM

That is what I thought, and I definatly would agree with the 37th patch looking Japanese made the way it is woven in the center like that. Definatly a keeper, esspecilly if it is named. I wonder why he wouldnt have a CIB, surely with assult credit he should have had one.



#6 atb

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:17 AM

Unless he was not an infantryman.

#7 Kansas Raider

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:45 AM

Yes the pacific ribbon has the assault credit arrowhead. Is it common to have the tongue missing from 101st patch? Steve



#8 patches

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:46 AM

Welp the problem with this is, is the missing AIRBORNE Tab, cause it won't be one worn when the 101 was a training division, cause it has Sergeant Major Yellow on Army Green ranks, the super grade of E-9 coming out in 1958, at that time the 101 was off training status and back on combat, and airborne status, had been since March 1956. Coat looks OK otherwise, to throw it out there, perhaps the 101 patch was added, and there was another one there, maybe a reserve unit patch cause of the Reserve Ribbon there.

 

Also if it was a bonafide 101 Coat with the tab missing or removed, there should be marks for Jump Wings, cause by the late 50s early 60s everyone serving in a Airborne Div was Jump Qualified, this is taken from the 1965 101 Yearbook I have, everyone in every unit combat, combat support, and support has a wing and oval.


Edited by patches, 17 November 2019 - 08:48 AM.


#9 Ray42

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:22 AM

The missing tongue is explained on the Eagle Patch Corner as being a factory error. It probably doesnt add much to the uniform besides being an error and an oddity. 

 

And you are right Patches, that is the second time that the green and yellow ranks have tripped me up on dating an item. I would definitely see if anything has been added or removed from the uniform. It could make sense as a reserve unit having been replaced with the 101st, however I would say that since everything else looks right for a pacific veteran of the 37th it might be worth getting to the bottom of and restoring to how it should be.  My advice would be to examine it closely for any patches or pins that could have been removed for more information.



#10 Kansas Raider

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 10:40 AM

Hi everybody, thanks for the info. They want $30 for the coat. Is that price alright? Thanks Steve



#11 Allan H.

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 01:32 PM

I'd probably pay $30 for the 37th Division patch.  The 101st patch is a post WWII "triangle eye." Bando mentions these in his eagle patch reference book, but I recall no mention of them on the website.

 

Yes, the tab has been removed as it should be there.

 

Allan


Edited by Allan H., 17 November 2019 - 01:33 PM.


#12 Kansas Raider

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:25 PM

I looked on the web site and no mention of the patch. The book is probably impossible to find Thanks Steve



#13 Ray42

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:48 PM

Since the question only related to the missing tongue I was looking at a type 9 that he had on the website which he stated was most likely a factory error. I guess maybe it was an unfair comparison since a later variation might have been made without a tongue but I felt like it was a safe bet that if it had happened as a factory error before it could happen again. http://www.101airbor...atchcorner.html (picture I was referring to was second up from bottom) 

 

But I also agree that the 37th patch and the ribbon rack combined are worth it. It is a pretty cool piece. 



#14 Wake1941

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 04:18 PM

Uniform doesnt seem legit to me 101st looks 60s period, 37th is merrod edge twill which makes no sense for the period.

#15 patches

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:11 PM

Uniform doesnt seem legit to me 101st looks 60s period, 37th is merrod edge twill which makes no sense for the period.

The 37th Inf Div patch will be a Japanese one, like this 2nd Inf Div one and here, note the silky like appearance and the broad border,, zoom in and you'll see, plus was there merrowed edge ones, can someone post an example of one fro this division? division inactivated early 1968, haven't seen one of these yet, not to say that there wasn't some made.

 

post-154231-0-59791000-1573964333.jpg


Edited by patches, 17 November 2019 - 05:20 PM.


#16 patches

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:21 PM

Hi everybody, thanks for the info. They want $30 for the coat. Is that price alright? Thanks Steve

Yeah sounds alirght,



#17 manayunkman

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:44 PM

Is there any ghost of a CIB?

Looks like something was removed from the jacket above the ribbon bars?

#18 patches

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 07:06 PM

Is there any ghost of a CIB?

Looks like something was removed from the jacket above the ribbon bars?

I guess at this point manay, we're hoping member picks it up at the store e seen this at, he is apparently mulling over the purchase of it. I too am curious on this, in example, was there really a tab there, not seeing any indication of that, cause the main 101 patch seems to be machine sewn, and there was a tab there, the cloth should have slight blemishes where it was removed, the rear area will tell, since it it might have a rayon lining, if it was ripped off there would be marks for sure, on the front tears even as this materiel, Tropical Worsted Wool would be prone to tearing if you ripped it off, removing gingerly with say a tread remover less, so, but it will be the lining if there behind that we'll see.

 

 

Then there's not so much a CIB, but he should look for that too,  but wings, if this is truly a late 50s to mid 60s 101 worn coat, there should be marking for jump wings. The Reserve ribbon is interesting, while there is a chance this E-9 spent the 10 years in the reserves or national guard in the 50s to qualify for this, the Armed Forces Reserve Medal, it lacks a Bronze Hourglass, though maybe some wore it without the device, don't know, but strange right for a E-8 or E-9 to go back to the regulars after 10 years or more in the USAR or NG to me. But we'll see, hopefully member gets it, and the mystery solved in one way or another.

 

I zoomed in on a saved image of the front of the coat and there seems to be a long thread pull above the rack, how does one describe it?, a snag in the cloth?


Edited by patches, 17 November 2019 - 07:08 PM.


#19 Kansas Raider

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 07:08 PM

I am going Wednesday to pick it up and will be able to tell more. Steve



#20 patches

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 07:30 PM

I am going Wednesday to pick it up and will be able to tell more. Steve

Alright!



#21 MAW

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 07:34 PM

Looks legit to me. Ribbons appropriate for the 37th. It does look like there's an outline of a tab above the 101st patch.

#22 patches

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:41 PM

Looks legit to me. Ribbons appropriate for the 37th. It does look like there's an outline of a tab above the 101st patch.

If there was one, the $64,000 Question will be.........Why did someone remove it, and leave everything else? :lol:



#23 Kansas Raider

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 02:28 PM

Hi everybody, I could not wait for tomorrow to come, so I went today. Here is the story. no evidence of sewing for a airborne tab. No evidence of a jump wing applied. There is evidence ( two holes above the ribbons and a shadow) for a CIB. To me the 101st patch was added later as there is evidence  of sewing of a round patch approx. 2 1/2 inches across under the 101st patch. I could not find a name anywhere. So who knows what the missing patch was. Steve



#24 BILL THE PATCH

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 02:42 PM

How round in Inches, could be 6th army, US army Pacific area, any other round patches for the PTO for army and corp's? That would wear the 37th?

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#25 Kansas Raider

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 04:28 PM

Going around the thread holes on the inside of the sleeve under the 101st patch, it is 7 1/2 inches. Hope that helps. Steve




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