ww1 wings opinions

[blind pew]

Thoughts on these wings?

[cwnorma]

blind pew,

 

Interesting wing. First I have ever seen like it.

 

It shows a high level of workmanship. It is probably bespoke, one of a kind, and could very well be real.

 

The hardware (T-bar, hand made catch) is consistent with other period jewelry.

 

The thing about a wing like this is that many [possibly most] collectors will shy away from it due to its unique nature.

 

I too am interested to see what some of the others say, and look forward to jumping back in this discussion after work.

 

Chris

[blind pew]

I thought the same thing. It seems of high quality, but does not conform to known makers that I can find in the books. The reverse hardware looks period as well.

 

 

blind pew,

 

Interesting wing. First I have ever seen like it.

 

It shows a high level of workmanship. It is probably bespoke, one of a kind, and could very well be real.

 

The hardware (T-bar, hand made catch) is consistent with other period jewelry.

 

The thing about a wing like this is that many [possibly most] collectors will shy away from it due to its unique nature.

 

I too am interested to see what some of the others say, and look forward to jumping back in this discussion after work.

 

Chris

 

[5thwingmarty]

Are the stars and letters applied to the base wing? I don't think I have ever seen gold on the stars like this either. I believe I have seen a few other wings where the number of stars wasn't 13, and at least one other where larger stars were used in fewer numbers.

[blind pew]

I don't have it in hand, so I don't know.

Are the stars and letters applied to the base wing? I don't think I have ever seen gold on the stars like this either. I believe I have seen a few other wings where the number of stars wasn't 13, and at least one other where larger stars were used in fewer numbers.

 

[pfrost]

I am going to weigh in on the other side of the equation, with the caveat that I am probably wrong.

 

The issue I have with this wing is that I think it is trying to pass itself off as a Homrighous-type wing. But some issues really give me heartburn. Most of the jeweler-made wings I have seen have very fine hand chasing and engraving. The lines are very fine and the detail is usually very good. The wing usually has some vaulting/shaping to it that gives it more of a 3D feel. It is true that there are some less well made wings, but they still tend to show some better detail. This looks like it was engraved by someone with some small amount of skill, but not to the level I would think a real jeweler/engraver would have.

 

Specifically, what I don't like is that the feathering is crude and simple. The veins on the feathers are just kind of simple lines, and they are all rather thick. The shoulder detail looks like they just used a single tool and tapped out some little divots. Compare that detail with the detail on a "good" Homrighous wing.

The lines on the shield are also relatively crude and poorly made. They all point in the same direction and are also rather thick. You will find most wings with finer lines in the shield that give a nice counter-shading. A also the edges of the wing (especially around the shield) looks poor and unfinished.

 

The stars... they give me pause. But the workmanship on the stars looks nothing like the workmanship of the US (which I actually kind of like). Although it looks like there is something wrong with the "S".

 

The T-pin and catch also seem clunky and crude. For a jeweler-made wing, one wonders why they didn't have better fittings. Why hand-make fittings when they could have easily been bought from a supplier?

 

All in all, I can't say I would go too crazy on getting these into my collection.

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

I have never seen this particular design before. It looks very well made. Hand construction of this level is usually a good sign. Between Russ, Cliff and Ron Burkey (www.flyingtigersantiques.com) would give you a more expert opinion.

[blind pew]

On 11/13/2019 at 2:01 PM, pfrost said:

I am going to weigh in on the other side of the equation, with the caveat that I am probably wrong.

 

The issue I have with this wing is that I think it is trying to pass itself off as a Homrighous-type wing. But some issues really give me heartburn. Most of the jeweler-made wings I have seen have very fine hand chasing and engraving. The lines are very fine and the detail is usually very good. The wing usually has some vaulting/shaping to it that gives it more of a 3D feel. It is true that there are some less well made wings, but they still tend to show some better detail. This looks like it was engraved by someone with some small amount of skill, but not to the level I would think a real jeweler/engraver would have.

 

Specifically, what I don't like is that the feathering is crude and simple. The veins on the feathers are just kind of simple lines, and they are all rather thick. The shoulder detail looks like they just used a single tool and tapped out some little divots. Compare that detail with the detail on a "good" Homrighous wing.

The lines on the shield are also relatively crude and poorly made. They all point in the same direction and are also rather thick. You will find most wings with finer lines in the shield that give a nice counter-shading. A also the edges of the wing (especially around the shield) looks poor and unfinished.

 

The stars... they give me pause. But the workmanship on the stars looks nothing like the workmanship of the US (which I actually kind of like). Although it looks like there is something wrong with the "S".

 

The T-pin and catch also seem clunky and crude. For a jeweler-made wing, one wonders why they didn't have better fittings. Why hand-make fittings when they could have easily been bought from a supplier?

 

All in all, I can't say I would go too crazy on getting these into my collection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response! I don't think it is a swing at a Homrighous wing, as it has MANY dissimilarities that would have been easy to fake. I am not saying that it is not a fake (I don't know), but it actually looks to be pretty well made. it is simple, I'll grant you that, but not sloppy. The "US" is applied and it appears as though the "S" may have been replaced. Why do so on a fake? The catch, hinge and pin actually look period to me.

 

I'll send a photo to Ron burkey and see what he thinks as well.

[blind pew]

Anymore thoughts on this wing? I emailed Ron Burkey and he said there are some aspects of this wing he likes and some he doesn't like.

 

He said he would have to see it in hand and would only buy it if there was a good return policy.

[rathbonemuseum.com]

That sounds like Ron. And he's right. You would have to really take a cynical eye to it in person and still some will have doubts.

[hawk3370]

After studying this wing carefully, I have to go along with Patrick. A number of flags popped up giving me doubt as to its being a legit WW1 period wing.

[blind pew]

Thanks for the opinions. Sounds like a "no go" on this one.

After studying this wing carefully, I have to go along with Patrick. A number of flags popped up giving me doubt as to its being a legit WW1 period wing

 

[cwnorma]

So just to throw some salt in the fire, I'll provide a little personal opinion.

 

I don't know who said it first, it wasn't me, but I'm willing to steal it: This wing is a Ricky Riccardo. Why? Because; "it's gots some 'esplainin' to do!"

 

Like I always try to do, I like to "bucket" my analysis of these things.

 

In the positive category:

 

1) Skill of execution. The badge is highly symmetrical and exhibits a fairly high level of jewelry-making skill. In my opinion the execution is far better than the drek presented by the run of the mill fakers out there

2) Edge cutting. The edge work is especially well executed. Whoever did the sawing of the planchet was an expert with a jeweler saw. If you have ever used a jeweler's saw, you know they are tricky

3) Gold US. It appears to have applied gold US and stars (of note it also appears as though the "S" has separated from the face of the shield and is lost revealing apparent lead-based solder below)

4) Findings. T-bar pins are generally considered to be appropriate (if a little early) to this time frame.

 

In the negative category:

 

1) Findings. I concur with Patrick in particular on the catch. By WW1 safety catches were cheap and plentiful from various findings dealers. Companies such as B.J. Ballou, and Blancard sold findings wholesale to the jewelry trade. Any jeweler with the skill to produce such a badge would likely want to save time, effort and and money by purchasing ready-made findings

2) Artistic merit. The badge appears to be very flat and does not particularly have an Art Nouveau sensibility about it. Despite being executed in a very highly skilled fashion, I would still expect that a badge of the 1918 period would be; somewhat vaulted, slightly but intentionally asymmetrical, and incorporate some curvilinear forms into the design. Real WW1 badges are products of their era and thus usually reflect design tropes en vogue when they were produced.

 

Some areas I would like to know more about the badge:

 

1) Cuts. Are the cuts in the feathering and shield "bright cuts?" In other words were they cut with a jewelers tool and done by hand? Bright cutting is a common jewelry making technique and is difficult to learn to do well. Additionally the striations caused by bright cutting are fairly recognizable with a 5x loupe. Or, are the cuts done with some sort of mechanical device?

2) Shoulder "Feathering." The method of stippling the shoulder with a crescent shaped tool reminds me of Asian or Middle-Eastern metal work. I would want to examine that up close as well.

 

So as some others have stated, I really see a mixed bag. As noted above, I believe this badge to be unique, probably bespoke, and may possibly be real. But because of its "Ricky Riccardo" status, barring a clear period photo of the pilot wearing the exact badge, many, if not most collectors will shy away from it.

 

Price. Price is also a consideration. Is the badge purporting to be a one of a kind rare exotic and thus bearing an associated premium? Or is the seller, reflecting the badge's somewhat ambiguous status, offering it for a relative bargain? If the price is reasonable enough, there might be enough good aspects about this badge to go out on a limb. Seller reputations and return rights are also in play.

 

It is possibly also worth noting; the sort of discussion surrounding this badge is the same sort of mental discussion that will occur within the mind of any potential buyer of such a badge. Owning such a Ricky Riccardo badge may be comfortable for one collector while another may be more conservative and eschew the badge for being too exotic.

 

Best wishes.

 

Chris

[blind pew]

Very detailed explanation of your thoughts. Thanks! After that, I actually may consider buying it.

 

Regarding fakes- Usually when there is a fake, we will see many of the same type of fake. Otherwise it is not economical to crank out one fake- it is just not worth it. Most of the fakes have been seen many times and repeatedly come up. A unique, low or single production wing, would not be worth the effort.

 

This does not appear to be cast, as many of the fakes.

 

Not all American pilot wings were made in the US. Theater made wings would be expected to be different than the standard US makers and not necessarily adhere to their conventional configuration. Why would a French maker care about the number of stars on the shield? Further, wouldn't a faker maker sure to have the "right" number?

 

Most fakes will be stamped in an attempt to deceive. You will see "Tiffany", "LeBreve", or other BS stamps and or "sterling". Nothing on this one. Why would one make a fake and not even take a swing at a fake stamp?

 

If this is a fake, they really, really took no effort whatsoever to imitate any of the known examples of US wings. Most fakers will try to make a wing that looks like one of the known makers. Why make something that is so uniquely odd, that would thus arouse suspicion?

So just to throw some salt in the fire, I'll provide a little personal opinion.

 

I don't know who said it first, it wasn't me, but I'm willing to steal it: This wing is a Ricky Riccardo. Why? Because; "it's gots some 'esplainin' to do!"

 

Like I always try to do, I like to "bucket" my analysis of these things.

 

In the positive category:

 

1) Skill of execution. The badge is highly symmetrical and exhibits a fairly high level of jewelry-making skill. In my opinion the execution is far better than the drek presented by the run of the mill fakers out there

2) Edge cutting. The edge work is especially well executed. Whoever did the sawing of the planchet was an expert with a jeweler saw. If you have ever used a jeweler's saw, you know they are tricky

3) Gold US. It appears to have applied gold US and stars (of note it also appears as though the "S" has separated from the face of the shield and is lost revealing apparent lead-based solder below)

4) Findings. T-bar pins are generally considered to be appropriate (if a little early) to this time frame.

 

In the negative category:

 

1) Findings. I concur with Patrick in particular on the catch. By WW1 safety catches were cheap and plentiful from various findings dealers. Companies such as B.J. Ballou, and Blancard sold findings wholesale to the jewelry trade. Any jeweler with the skill to produce such a badge would likely want to save time, effort and and money by purchasing ready-made findings

2) Artistic merit. The badge appears to be very flat and does not particularly have an Art Nouveau sensibility about it. Despite being executed in a very highly skilled fashion, I would still expect that a badge of the 1918 period would be; somewhat vaulted, slightly but intentionally asymmetrical, and incorporate some curvilinear forms into the design. Real WW1 badges are products of their era and thus usually reflect design tropes en vogue when they were produced.

 

Some areas I would like to know more about the badge:

 

1) Cuts. Are the cuts in the feathering and shield "bright cuts?" In other words were they cut with a jewelers tool and done by hand? Bright cutting is a common jewelry making technique and is difficult to learn to do well. Additionally the striations caused by bright cutting are fairly recognizable with a 5x loupe. Or, are the cuts done with some sort of mechanical device?

2) Shoulder "Feathering." The method of stippling the shoulder with a crescent shaped tool reminds me of Asian or Middle-Eastern metal work. I would want to examine that up close as well.

 

So as some others have stated, I really see a mixed bag. As noted above, I believe this badge to be unique, probably bespoke, and may possibly be real. But because of its "Ricky Riccardo" status, barring a clear period photo of the pilot wearing the exact badge, many, if not most collectors will shy away from it.

 

Price. Price is also a consideration. Is the badge purporting to be a one of a kind rare exotic and thus bearing an associated premium? Or is the seller, reflecting the badge's somewhat ambiguous status, offering it for a relative bargain? If the price is reasonable enough, there might be enough good aspects about this badge to go out on a limb. Seller reputations and return rights are also in play.

 

It is possibly also worth noting; the sort of discussion surrounding this badge is the same sort of mental discussion that will occur within the mind of any potential buyer of such a badge. Owning such a Ricky Riccardo badge may be comfortable for one collector while another may be more conservative and eschew the badge for being too exotic.

 

Best wishes.

 

Chris

 

[pfrost]

There are actually a very large number of handmade fakes that exist (here is an example). They are all "one-offs" with various different components (and many similarities). Some are cruder than others, but they all have similar characteristics. Sharply cut, arrowhead or spear shaped feather tips. Engraving styles that looks much more like it was done with a dremal drill bit rather than with jeweler's tools, and hand made style fittings (including C-catches). The shield and US tends to be a bit higher quality workmanship than the wings, but it is still characterized by rather crude and unsophisticated engravings. As for making money... The cost to a guy working in his garage is pretty marginal, and even if he makes 200-500$, he will still likely come out ahead. Then these things get into collections and float around, picking up wear and patina. Also, I don't know of any metal WWI pilot wings that were ever made by the French/British/Italians (although they did make bullion wings). I've had this conversation with a number of WWI wing collectors, and that seems to be a consensus (at least no one has an example). The use of gold stars is something that you just never see on any US-made pilot wings.

 

The wings are sometimes mounted on a backing or some sort or another, and many aren't hallmarked. If you look through the pinned thread, you will see a good number of these types of fakes. They seem to like to make various balloon versions, but you will see all sorts of ratings (not a few that aren't totally fantasy pieces).

 

I will agree with Chris that this one is a bit higher up on the scale of these handmade type wings, but not up to the scale of known original patterns. I still see more evidence of using a dremal drill than hand made cuts.

 

As for what Chris is talking about in relationship to "bright cuts", this is what I believe he is talking about. You can see that there are different types of cuts and a lot of fine detail that shows a great deal of workmanship. Even the Eisenstadt and Homrighous wings will have this type of detail.

 

Patrick

[pfrost]

There are actually a very large number of handmade fakes that exist (here is an example). They are all "one-offs" with various different components (and many similarities). Some are cruder than others, but they all have similar characteristics. Sharply cut, arrowhead or spear shaped feather tips. Engraving styles that looks much more like it was done with a dremal drill bit rather than with jeweler's tools, and hand made style fittings (including C-catches). The shield and US tends to be a bit higher quality workmanship than the wings, but it is still characterized by rather crude and unsophisticated engravings. As for making money... The cost to a guy working in his garage is pretty marginal, and even if he makes 200-500$, he will still likely come out ahead. Then these things get into collections and float around, picking up wear and patina. Also, I don't know of any metal WWI pilot wings that were ever made by the French/British/Italians (although they did make bullion wings). I've had this conversation with a number of WWI wing collectors, and that seems to be a consensus (at least no one has an example). The use of gold stars is something that you just never see on any US-made pilot wings.

 

The wings are sometimes mounted on a backing or some sort or another, and many aren't hallmarked. If you look through the pinned thread, you will see a good number of these types of fakes. They seem to like to make various balloon versions, but you will see all sorts of ratings (not a few that aren't totally fantasy pieces).

 

I will agree with Chris that this one is a bit higher up on the scale of these handmade type wings, but not up to the scale of known original patterns. I still see more evidence of using a dremal drill than hand made cuts.

 

As for what Chris is talking about in relationship to "bright cuts", this is what I believe he is talking about. You can see that there are different types of cuts and a lot of fine detail that shows a great deal of workmanship. Even the Eisenstadt and Homrighous wings will have this type of detail.

 

Patrick

[blind pew]

Well........................ you only know about 1,000 times more about this than I do. That is great information and makes sense; I can certainly see what you are thinking and that refutes some of my previous notions.

 

Thanks very much, as you have obviously encountered similar items in the past. This has certainly been very educational for me- thanks for sharing this and hopefully other can benefit from this as well.

There are actually a very large number of handmade fakes that exist (here is an example). They are all "one-offs" with various different components (and many similarities). Some are cruder than others, but they all have similar characteristics. Sharply cut, arrowhead or spear shaped feather tips. Engraving styles that looks much more like it was done with a dremal drill bit rather than with jeweler's tools, and hand made style fittings (including C-catches). The shield and US tends to be a bit higher quality workmanship than the wings, but it is still characterized by rather crude and unsophisticated engravings. As for making money... The cost to a guy working in his garage is pretty marginal, and even if he makes 200-500$, he will still likely come out ahead. Then these things get into collections and float around, picking up wear and patina. Also, I don't know of any metal WWI pilot wings that were ever made by the French/British/Italians (although they did make bullion wings). I've had this conversation with a number of WWI wing collectors, and that seems to be a consensus (at least no one has an example). The use of gold stars is something that you just never see on any US-made pilot wings.

 

The wings are sometimes mounted on a backing or some sort or another, and many aren't hallmarked. If you look through the pinned thread, you will see a good number of these types of fakes. They seem to like to make various balloon versions, but you will see all sorts of ratings (not a few that aren't totally fantasy pieces).

 

I will agree with Chris that this one is a bit higher up on the scale of these handmade type wings, but not up to the scale of known original patterns. I still see more evidence of using a dremal drill than hand made cuts.

 

As for what Chris is talking about in relationship to "bright cuts", this is what I believe he is talking about. You can see that there are different types of cuts and a lot of fine detail that shows a great deal of workmanship. Even the Eisenstadt and Homrichous wings will have this type of detail.

 

Patrick

 

[cwnorma]

Patrick,

 

That lower picture is indeed what I am talking about with respect to; "bright cuts." Bright cutting is a jewelry making technique using a type of chisel called an onglet to cut details in the surface of an item. The entire reason for bright cutting is to catch the light and add sparkle to the piece. Onglet cuts vary in shape due to the varying geometry of the onglet itself and the angle at with the engraver engraves. This changing geometry is what helps create the "sparkle" of a bright cut. Here are a couple of videos that shows the process of bright cutting:

 

 

 

Another, similar technique is; "chasing." Chasing uses a hammer and specially shaped chasing tools to impress a design into the piece. Sometimes Chasing is done from the reverse to add dimensionality to a design as well:

 

 

Both techniques leave behind tell-tale signs reflecting their hand-work nature.

 

Contrastingly, machine engravers usually use static needle engraving bits or rotating burs that leave very consistent flat or round bottom channels in the cuts.

 

 

As noted above, I would want to examine the badge very closely to determine if the cuts were handwork (i.e. bright cuts or chasing) or if it was done on an engraving machine.

 

Cheers!

 

Chris

 

[ludwigh1980]

Here's something to consider and I speak as some-one as a WW1 collector and not specifically a wing collector. I have also collected and dealt with a lot of southwestern silver (Navajo, Mexican) as well as antique western Americana, cowboy spurs and bits. First off I like the patination from what i see. It looks like natural 100 year old silver oxidation and not a quick chemically induced reaction. The styling though could be considered crude is highly stylized to a particular part of the US. It reminds of the often patriotic silver inlay and decoration you will see produced in the West for adornment on cowboy spurs, horse bits, saddles etc. Particularly Colorado (Canon City Penitentiary), Nevada (G.S. Garcia) , Texas. If you google "G.S. Garcia Eagle" you can see they type of silver workmanship of which I am referring specifically the style as well as the edge cut out of the wings. I am would say these were not made by a jeweler per say but rather a south western based silver smith and engraver possibly even Mexican which would coincide with the style of the pin on the back. Possibly made for an Aviator stationed near the border ie Kelly Field Texas. I had some American patriotic silver work that belonged to WW1 Army private that worked as an airplane mechanic at Kelly Field in 1918 that he must of picked up in Mexico or on the border. It was made by a Mexican silver smith and bore his hallmark. G. S Garcia a very well known western spur maker that often utilized American Eagles in his work was himself originally from Mexico. Just a thought and take it from some-one who is by no means an expert on WW1 wings. I have only owned two that I found in estates. In 30 years I have only found two in the woodwork.

[cwnorma]

After studying this wing carefully, I have to go along with Patrick. A number of flags popped up giving me doubt as to its being a legit WW1 period wing.

 

Terry,

 

This wing certainly is a specimen that bears much critical discussion and examination.

 

Would you care to share the specifics of the flags that popped up to you? I think we all could learn from from your perspectives.

 

Thanks!

 

Chris

[cwnorma]

... I have also collected and dealt with a lot of southwestern silver (Navajo, Mexican) as well as antique western Americana, cowboy spurs and bits ...

 

ludwigh1980,

 

Thanks for your comments. I too suspect there was some overlap between the concho-trade and the wing-trade.

 

There are a whole series of wings that show construction and design techniques very similar to those exhibited by the work of Mexican silversmiths in the "concho-trade" of the southwestern United States.

 

Here are several examples:

 

The above photos were collected from the internet. Fair use for educational purposes is claimed.

All of the above badges exhibit construction techniques (layering, fusing of gold to silver, bright cuts, chasing, etc) that would be equally at home on conchos, spurs, bits, etc. These techniques are distinctive and somewhat different from those exhibited by jewelers in the Northeast.

 

Considering many pilots took their training in Texas and California, it is not unreasonable to speculate that a small number of Mexican silver craftsmen turned a part of their production, and brought techniques from their experience, to meet the desires of the young aviators.

 

​With respect to the badge at the top of the thread, Its completely flat nature is one aspect I do find troubling. Note how the three badges above all show varying extents of vaulting.

 

Chris

[cwnorma]

It is possibly also worth noting; the sort of discussion surrounding this badge is the same sort of mental discussion that will occur within the mind of any potential buyer of such a badge. Owning such a Ricky Riccardo badge may be comfortable for one collector while another may be more conservative and eschew the badge for being too exotic.

 

Going back upthread and re-reading what I wrote, the above statement probably could have been better worded and thus bears some clarification:

 

What I tried so poorly to intimate, mostly aimed at anyone considering purchasing this badge, was that a future buyer of the badge would mentally go through similar; "good aspects versus bad aspects" mental discourse before making a purchasing decision for such a badge.

 

This is evidently not a; Linz Bros, Eisenstadt, Homrighous, or any other known maker of hand-made-type badges. There is no (that we yet know of) photograph of a pilot wearing this badge.

 

Some collectors may see enough good in the badge to not mind having it as an example of a very unusual wing in their collections. Others might be more conservative and only wish to own "textbook" examples. In other words, no matter what a collector's individual opinions of this badge might be, because of its unique nature, the badge will always be a; "hard sell."

 

Chris

[blind pew]

As an additional piece of information, this badge comes from Europe, not the US. Of course, there could have been some "traffic" to get there.

 

 

That is a very good explanation about the tool working and I can certainly see it on the examples you posted. However, would you not agree that the wing in question does not have those sharp, angled cuts as seen on the fakes you presented?

 

I can certainly see the lack of vaulting and more crude engraving than most wings, however.

 

Thanks again very much for the very detailed examination and explanations. I am learning a lot about things to look for in fakes and this has been a very helpful exercise.

 

Going back upthread and re-reading what I wrote, the above statement probably could have been better worded and thus bears some clarification:

 

What I tried so poorly to intimate, mostly aimed at anyone considering purchasing this badge, was that a future buyer of the badge would mentally go through similar; "good aspects versus bad aspects" mental discourse before making a purchasing decision for such a badge.

 

This is evidently not a; Linz Bros, Eisenstadt, Homrighous, or any other known maker of hand-made-type badges. There is no (that we yet know of) photograph of a pilot wearing this badge.

 

Some collectors may see enough good in the badge to not mind having it as an example of a very unusual wing in their collections. Others might be more conservative and only wish to own "textbook" examples. In other words, no matter what a collector's individual opinions of this badge might be, because of its unique nature, the badge will always be a; "hard sell."

 

Chris

 

[cwnorma]

However, would you not agree that the wing in question does not have those sharp, angled cuts as seen on the fakes you presented?

 

blind pew,

 

I think your question was aimed at pfrost. He posted the only "for certain" fake badge in this thread; the "Military Aviator" (wing with star) badge posted in post #16 above.

 

The lower photo in post #16 (showing only the right wing against a maroon background) is a known good wing.

 

The badges I posted are WW1 era badge examples picked to illustrate southwestern influenced silver work.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

[blind pew]

Okay- thanks.

 

And thanks again for the analysis and information. I'm sure the thread has been equally informative to a number of others reading the thread.

 

blind pew,

 

I think your question was aimed at pfrost. He posted the only "for certain" fake badge in this thread; the "Military Aviator" (wing with star) badge posted in post #16 above.

 

The lower photo in post #16 (showing only the right wing against a maroon background) is a known good wing.

 

The badges I posted are WW1 era badge examples picked to illustrate southwestern influenced silver work.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris