Jump to content

cleaning bullion embroidery, I cracked the mystery!


Kaigun Shosa
 Share

Recommended Posts

Maybe rinsing the piece with water that has diluted baking soda in it would nullify any remaining acid?

Then rinse with clear water last step?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought I might as well just clean the entire wing.

Here are the before and after shots.

I rinsed them in water and then water with dissolved baking soda and then clear water to rinse last.

post-181333-0-06689000-1577755660_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kaigun Shosa

To All,

 

I just wanted to reiterate the purpose of this post is to pass along some good information to fellow collectors on an alternative way of cleaning bullion. Also note, this was meant for those that want to restore the luster of bullion. For those that want to preserve the patina and tone of your bullion collection, just ignore this thread. Again, it's simply here as an alternative way of cleaning bullion.

 

The best thing about the forum is the participation and encouragement of members to provide information and to encourage alternate views of discussion, however, I do take umbrage to those that want to inject false narratives, speculation and conjecture within a discussion merely to throw negativity to a helpful solution.

 

To clear up some facts. I stated the use of "Cream of Tartar" not the use of pure Tartaric Acid. There is a difference. Tartaric acid had a concentrated pH of around 3.5, HOWEVER, "Cream of tartar" has a concentration of around 5 pH. This is the fact that "Cream of Tartar" also has potassium hydroxide or what is commonly called bicarbonate which reduced the acidity of the compound. When combined with water to form a paste, the acidity is significantly reduced.

 

Also, in one of the last steps I mentioned cleaning using running water and a "soft" bristle brush, this is to reduce any residual that may be on the bullion. Any buildup of tartaric acid from the "Cream of Tartar" will be extremely miniscule. We are talking on the microscale here.

 

The damage to your bullion and cloth will be about the same as the natural environmental factors such as air, storage conditions, the surrounding environment and handling it with your fingers.

 

Bottom line.....this posting was only intended for those looking for an alternative means to cleaning bullion if they choose to do so.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Bottom line.....this posting was only intended for those looking for an alternative means to cleaning bullion if they choose to do so.

 

 

We've had some long chemistry lessons posted in regards to this and my brain hurts from trying to keep up with them. I think there's universal agreement so far that this method does clean bullion - as noted in one chemistry lesson post:

 

"The original poster posited that Cream of Tartar was a safe, natural, effective way to clean bullion. I don't dispute the effectiveness as the photos themselves demonstrate fairly dramatic results."

 

That was followed with:

 

"Can anyone here assure us of the long term results?"

 

If anyone saw the image I posted of care instructions for US Navy bullion, GEMSCO - the maker - straight out us tells us:

 

"All gold bullion and gold braids WILL EVENTUALLY TARNISH."

 

So it stands to reason that cleaned bullion will get tarnished again, whether it was cleaned or not.

 

Most of the tarnished bullion I see is on Naval officer uniforms and it looks bad. Now, mind you, certain uncommon things such as bullion wings and patches maybe should be left as is, but more mundane shoulder boards , for example, might benefit from a cleaning without much risk.

 

It would be interesting to do some testing to see if there any noticeable long-range impacts. I don't have anything bullion these days, otherwise I'd try a test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"It would be interesting to do some testing to see if there any noticeable long-range impacts. I don't have anything bullion these days, otherwise I'd try a test. "

 

Hi Bob. Thats what Im doing with the bullion wing in post #52 and #53.

 

Its on a shelf in plastic and Il post it next year to see if there is any effect.

 

Some may think its terrible that I cleaned it but personally Im happy with how it turned out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...
On 12/30/2019 at 7:28 PM, The Rooster said:

After

I may hit it once more.

post-181333-0-86167900-1577755712_thumb.jpg

 

Greetings all.

Close enough to a year gone by, so I thought I would update this and show the results after a year of sitting.

The wing has been stored in a plastic cover on a shelf out of the sunlight.

I never did do another coating on it. Its been untouched since the above post. Same camera taken in the same spot.

I took 3 new pics today to compare to last year. And where it started in the last pic.

 

 

DSCF3499.JPG

DSCF3500.JPG

DSCF3502.JPG

post-181333-0-06689000-1577755660_thumb.jpg

DSCF3504.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So... to sum it up after a year, I see no damage from the Cream Tarter application.

And being covered and not exposed to the elements, its shine is still

there. Personally, I'm happy with the process and .......

 

Many thanks to the Original Poster on how to clean bullion.

 

In my eyes, my wing has been restored to its former glory. It looks much better than it did.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Rooster said:

It looks much better than it did.

 

It's good to see this one year report. I'll have to find some tarnished bullion and give it a try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some stuff that comes to mind. I would have to say there are many treatments that offer dramatic perceived improvements to leather jackets and gear that have been said to actually cause degradation over time. There aren't many examples I have seen of ruined items but the concern is degradation over a much longer period than one year. Some have mentioned CW gear that was preserved with oils or cleaned with non-ph-neutral cleaners in the past century. There is claimed damage in comparison to those only kept in controlled environments. I think this is akin to repeatedly handling items departing human skin oils onto them. That's generally accepted to be damaging and I have certainly seen metal rust where my fingers have touched. pH neutral is a big marketing thing now.  I do have some jackets that were really dry and almost gone that I treated maybe 5yrs ago and they look pretty much like they did before I started. So for me the results were temporary with possibly negative long-term effects. I seriously doubt they will improve with age due to the treatment.

 

Collectors of silver, brass, and other metal items, even guns or wooden furniture, would cringe if one polished up an old item or did anything to remove patina. Ask a wing collector. 

 

As an acid, would cream of tartar degrade stitching or whatever might be in contact to the bullion? Could the entire area be safely neutralized? Could the exposed underlying fabric see a pH drop in, say, high humidity environments? I suppose much of the evidence is blended with opinion or assumptions. I certainly don't wear white gloved when handling my things.

 

I suppose this has been expressed better already but long-term preservation of collectibles, to me, beyond our lifetimes would be my concern. One year is really not long at all but thanks for keeping the topic alive. Not sure I will be around in the amount of time I'm thinking - 25-35yrs.

 

These results are certainly impressive. I did see something for sale since this thread and it was obvious that the bullion, which looked very nice, had been cleaned. This was not mentioned but was obvious to me, and definitely hindered my interest.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a wing collector who likes his wings clean. Some people relish tarnish or "Patina" on silver wings.

Im not one of those. When I first picked up the bullion wing above a couple years ago, I thought to myself, its a shame there is no way to clean it up.

I hold to the idea that a pilot would have never been caught wearing a tarnish stained rotten looking wing on their chest.

Removing the tarnish really makes it period correct as you would have never worn then tarnished.

Tarnish pits and eats away at silver over time. Silver sulfide

I would not re stain an old table cabinet etc etc. Somethings I would not mess with. I would never clean up or repaint an old helmet. But to me in my way of looking

at it, wings are different thing altogether. I would not hesitate to buy a vintage wing that had been cleaned as long as they did not clean it with sand

paper or a buffing wheel brasso etc. I dont buy wings based on the tarnish. I also dont collect WW1 wings which is a whole different ball game. Prob would not clean those.

I personally like the results of this process on the bullion wing I cleaned. And using several baking soda rinses followed by clean water, Im not worried about the effect of the tarter.

Im guessing its mostly neutralized. Also tarter was used for years in fabric making so I doubt its harmful to fabric.

Its a much better looking item now. Will it tarnish again? Most likely though not as quickly as its covered up.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...
Military_Curator

@The Rooster How have the wings held up since the 1 year mark? I've been thinking back to this post for awhile now and am interested to see how they have aged

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Rooster

Here is one of the original shots at the top and then two taken tonight with . Looks about the same to me. I kept it in plastic in a cupboard. And the before pic at the bottom. I cleaned it over 2 years ago.

DSCF3502.JPG.1c33fdae49cc505af83a11363840483e.JPG

DSCF4478.JPG

DSCF4479.JPG

post-181333-0-06689000-1577755660_thumb.jpg.8cdce634344f590dbfe135cfaed3bf6c.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...
Military_Curator

I want to bring this thread back up again and see how the cleaned pieces are doing. This thread is one of the most interesting ones I've seen on USMF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...