EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Share #1 Posted September 7, 2019 When researching the Marine Corps Expeditionary Medal, it comes up that medal #1 was issued to QM Sgt. Roy L. Kinna. This medal was recently posted on Facebook with a back story that it came as a group in the 80's from Kinna's daughter. The post says, that the owner and Col. Gleim were able to determine that Kinna was in charge of issuing the medals. Therefore he got No.1....I've looked into Kinna's service, and he was one of many QM Sgts. at HQ DC. Also there were many Chief QMs. which is a WO rank. My question, is there any know documentation to back up that Roy L. Kinna was issued USMC Expeditionary Medal No.1? Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2019 Share #2 Posted September 7, 2019 Would it be listed in his service record? I'd think that would be the easiest way to verify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted September 7, 2019 I'm working with Geoff on that as of last night. Not all medal numbers are listed in the Marine's service record. Looking at pictures of the medal number itself, my skepticism is itching just a little. I just would have thought that more research would have been posted over the years of a medal so important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #4 Posted September 7, 2019 Would it be listed in his service record? I'd think that would be the easiest way to verify it. If you issued the medal to yourself, probably not. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2019 Share #5 Posted September 7, 2019 I'm working with Geoff on that as of last night. Not all medal numbers are listed in the Marine's service record. Looking at pictures of the medal number itself, my skepticism is itching just a little. I just would have thought that more research would have been posted over the years of a medal so important. Do you have a picture of the "M. No. 1" that you care to show or if you don't have a picture but have only seen it, what looks suspect about the numbering? I've never seen a faked "M. No." medal, not even close. I wonder what it would look like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted September 7, 2019 Here is the only photo provided so far. Via Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #7 Posted September 7, 2019 Here is the owner's reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2019 Share #8 Posted September 7, 2019 Interesting post. I see what you mean about the numbering, If it's for sale, I'd prefer to see it in the flesh or at least a high resolution photo with good lighting. But if the price were right, I'd take a flyer based on the photo you posted. It looks like honest wear and knocks. Here's an example of the numbering of a medal owned by jmar that he posted previously. If the Gleim story is corroborated in writing or a very reliable source, and hopefully Geoff will find something in the file, it would seem to be the real deal. That would be a tremendous medal for any Marine collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted September 7, 2019 Share #9 Posted September 7, 2019 Interesting post. I see what you mean about the numbering, If it's for sale, I'd prefer to see it in the flesh or at least a high resolution photo with good lighting. But if the price were right, I'd take a flyer based on the photo you posted. It looks like honest wear and knocks. Here's an example of the numbering of a medal owned by jmar that he posted previously. If the Gleim story is corroborated in writing or a very reliable source, and hopefully Geoff will find something in the file, it would seem to be the real deal. That would be a tremendous medal for any Marine collector. Totally agree. And, I would have felt much better about its potential prior to seeing the bogus M No. applied to the medal in the below link. You know that MNo stamping was bogus based on it being on a medal that shouldn't have it. But put it on a medal that would have such a prefix... And, that MNo stamp looks pretty decent. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/332462-1915-marine-haitian-campaign-medal-with-copy-bar/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2019 Share #10 Posted September 7, 2019 Kurt, thanks for posting the link to see an absolutely fake "M. No." impressed medal. I'd never seen one before, Kinda scary since it's not too bad (the M. No. looks good, but the numbering a little off to my eye) and definitely could deceive if it had been on a USN or USMC Mint medal where it would belong and not a 1915 Haitian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #11 Posted September 7, 2019 The whole group. Via Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #12 Posted September 7, 2019 GCM is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #13 Posted September 7, 2019 Mexican Campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #14 Posted September 7, 2019 1915 Haitian Campaign Medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted September 7, 2019 Share #15 Posted September 7, 2019 Didn’t realize it was part of a group. With a named GCM, I’m much more sold on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2019 Share #16 Posted September 7, 2019 Beautiful group. it's not unreasonable to judge a medal by the company it keeps. Humped up tends to hang with humped up. And while one hump can cause you to question the whole bunch, in this case the bona fides of the rest of the group I think would alleviate concern about the Expeditions medal, especially with the GCM (as Kurt says). Even better if you get to handle it or see very high res scans. If everything else checks out when you get the files from Geoff, I think the stock goes up on M. No. 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #17 Posted September 7, 2019 My main focus in all of this was, why did Kinna get USMC Expeditionary Medal No.1 The medal was first issued as a ribbon only in 1921. The ribbon was issued with numerals for each expedition. It was called the Commemorative Expeditionary Ribbon. The earliest I can find of these medals actually being issued is, March of 1931. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted September 7, 2019 Share #18 Posted September 7, 2019 I don't have my Gleim Medal Letters book handy, but does it attribute #1 to him? I believe you already figured out the mystery, This Marine had the inside track and he was looking out for Number One and so he gave himself No. 1. I'll bet Geoff finds the paper trail when he copies the file for you. Look forward to seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGA-DOG Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share #19 Posted September 7, 2019 I don't have my Gleim Medal Letters book handy, but does it attribute #1 to him? I believe you already figured out the mystery, This Marine had the inside track and he was looking out for Number One and so he gave himself No. 1. I'll bet Geoff finds the paper trail when he copies the file for you. Look forward to seeing it. We shall see. Kinna served from 1912-1938. I'd think that a medal that was designed twice would not go to a QM Sgt. I'm going to check his family ties on Ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted September 8, 2019 Share #20 Posted September 8, 2019 Outstanding group! Someone had to get Medal No. 1 - why not him? In some cases after Campaign & service medals were instituted in 1908/09 they were initially issued based on an alphabetical list. The "A"s got the lowest numbers. Good luck with his file. Semper Fi - Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbilly32 Posted September 19, 2019 Share #21 Posted September 19, 2019 Gentlemen,I am the current caretaker of the medal group under discussion here. I appreciate the hesitation some members have expressed here regarding the legitimacy of this particular medal, as I myself wasquite suspicious when the group first came into my hands more than thirty years ago directly from the sister (not daughter as stated above) of QM Sgt. Roy L. Kinna.When I obtained the grouping, I approached Col. Gleim and asked him to examine it. After doing his own research, Col. Gleim assured me that, in his opinion, the group and the Expeditionary Medal in particular were legitimate.When I obtained Kinna's grouping, it included a great deal of paperwork consisting of his enlistment and reenlistment documents, promotion documents and personal correspondence including a personal handwritten letter of congratulation from the Commandant upon Kinna's retirement from the Corps. Col. Gleim was surprised at this letter and stated to me that it was evidence of a close personal relationship between Kinna and the senior staff at the Marine Corps Headquarters.Kinna and his wife, Lavinia P. Chamberlain Kinna, were childless, and upon her death in 1978, Kinna's medal group was given to his sister.Kinna and his wife are both buried at Arlington National Cemetery.As a sidelight, Lavinia P. Chamberlain was also a Marine having been among the first women to enlist during the First World War.As stated above, this group has been in my personal collection since the 1980's. It is not now, nor has it ever been for sale.I would be happy to try and answer any questions that members of the Forum may have.hillbilly32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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