Jump to content

Fixed bail Help


cerick1450
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello

 

Picked up a nice been there fixed bail. It came with a CAPAC green A wsher liner. I cannot make out the Heat lot number, run of paint covers. I think this is a about 1943 made McCord. It has steel flat J-hook, and steel Buckle with OD #3 chinstraps. Just wanted to make sure it is not a Schlueter. What do you think?

Thanks

post-13198-0-67946100-1566425449.jpg

post-13198-0-30090300-1566425455.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely a McCord

+1

 

It has the later style McCord bails and oval weld dimples at the seam rather than circular.

 

I can post some reference pictures of the bails, weld dimples, and some shape later tonight if you would like

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, had a chance to take some pictures from my collection and get them sized to post. You may already know some of this information, but I felt like putting together a pretty comprehensive guide in case others would like to reference it. This should hopefully be a pretty good reference for telling apart Schlueter and McCord helmets. With all of these pictures I tried my best to take close to the same shot when comparing the two manufacturers.

 

First thing to look for is the S by the heat stamp. This is the quickest way to tell but due to paint, grime, or light stamping it may not always be useful. The other thing to notice is the size/font of the heat stamp. McCord and Schlueter had different fonts they used for their heat stamps and additionally Schlueter's heat stamp numbers seem to be taller than McCord's. Finally with the heat stamps, Schlueter helmets only appear to go to the mid 500s. While I would hesitate to put a hard cutoff on the schlueter heat stamp range, I would say a heat stamp of 600 and above is probably a good indicator that the helmet is a McCord

 

This first one is an early Schlueter I have that was repaired to a swivel bail helmet

post-169952-0-99457900-1566438345.jpg

 

This second one is a mid production McCord heat stamp from a swivel bail helmet

post-169952-0-48827300-1566438403.jpg

 

notice the slightly different fonts and the smaller McCord numbers vs the larger Schlueter numbers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next are the bails themselves. This is only useful for FB helmets

 

 

First up are the first style of McCord bails. I haven't seen much on these, but from what I've seen they are typically limited to very early McCords. From pictures I've seen online, most seem to be on helmets with heat stamps under 100, but I have a feeling they are on a few helmets with heat stamps over 100 but less than about 200. So far I have not seen any McCord with these style bails with a heat stamp of around 200 or higher.

 

Key features are the small and "chunky" feet, slightly curved profile, and slight inward angle of the bails

post-169952-0-40721500-1566438523.jpg

 

next up is the more common style of McCord bails. Of note is the more square profile, the small feet, and the thickness of the feet

post-169952-0-75776100-1566438527.jpg

 

finally, here are the Schlueter bails. Note the more pronounced curve of the bails and how the feet are flatter, thinner, and wider than the McCord bails. Also note how the bottom of the feet are much more rounded than the McCord examples.

post-169952-0-08094500-1566438533.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next thing we'll look at is the differences in welds at the seam of the rim. This applies to both fixed bails and swivel bails

 

First up are the oval shaped McCord welds

post-169952-0-71389900-1566438975.jpg

 

Next are the circular shaped Schlueter welds

post-169952-0-10827000-1566439027.jpg

 

The shape of the welds can give you a pretty good indication if you're not certain whether it's a McCord or Schlueter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last is the overall shape of the shells. McCords and Schlueters have slightly different shapes. Its easiest to notice if you have one of each to compare but once you understand the differences it is the most reliable way to spot the difference if the heat stamp or bails don't give it away

 

First up is the profile from the front, the McCord helmet's brim has a higher flare than the Shlueters.

 

The McCord helmet is on the left and the Schlueter is on the right

post-169952-0-79854300-1566439192_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The side profile gives an even better comparison between the two shapes.

post-169952-0-29526200-1566439222_thumb.jpg

 

Also of note, I believe that Schlueter helmets are slightly shorter than McCords, though this is hard to tell without having one of each to really sit there and compare.

 

The differences in profile remain true for both fixed bail and swivel bail helmets. As mentioned in the previous post, I find this the most reliable way to tell them apart if the S isn't visible on the heat stamp and the chinstraps are either missing or it's a swivel bail helmet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was searching for information on the Dimples above the rim at Bails, but did not find much. Per the thread, it mentions that they were only on earlier McCords and not at all on Schluters. Is that correct?

Thanks

Here is the link.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295520-m1-helmet-dimples-on-the-rim-above-the-bales/?hl=%2Bdimple+%2Bbale

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My pleasure! Regarding the dimples I'm not sure, I haven't read anything on them and do not have any helmets with them in my collection

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will sometimes find the dimples on earlier fixed loop helmets. As stated in the other thread, they most likely are an integrity feature to prevent the rim from loosening. It is likely that further ballistic testing resulted in the suspension of this reinforcement process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
El 22 de agosto de 2019 a las 3:55 a.m., Nickman983 dijo:

A continuación están las propias fianzas. Esto solo es útil para cascos FB

 

 

Primero están el primer estilo de fianzas McCord. No he visto mucho sobre estos, pero por lo que he visto, generalmente se limitan a los primeros McCords. De las imágenes que he visto en línea, la mayoría parece estar en cascos con sellos térmicos por debajo de 100, pero tengo la sensación de que están en algunos cascos con sellos térmicos por encima de 100 pero menos de 200. Hasta ahora no he visto ningún McCord con estas fianzas de estilo con un sello de calor de alrededor de 200 o más.

 

Las características clave son las patas pequeñas y "gruesas", el perfil ligeramente curvado y el ligero ángulo hacia adentro de las asas.

post-169952-0-40721500-1566438523.jpg

 

el siguiente es el estilo más común de fianzas McCord. Es de destacar el perfil más cuadrado, los pies pequeños y el grosor de los pies.

post-169952-0-75776100-1566438527.jpg

 

finalmente, aquí están las fianzas de Schlueter. Observe la curva más pronunciada de las fianzas y cómo los pies son más planos, más delgados y más anchos que las fianzas McCord. También observe cómo la planta de los pies es mucho más redondeada que los ejemplos de McCord.

post-169952-0-08094500-1566438533.jpg

Hola Nickman83,


Gracias por tus contribuciones.


Tengo un casco con el número 214B y veo que se fabricó en julio de 1942. Mirando su publicación, creo que es un McCord.
Lo que veo extraño es que tiene fianzas móviles ya que no se implantaron hasta octubre de 1943.
¿Es esto normal?

Adjunto imagenes para apreciarlo mejor

P1150775.jpg

P1150777.jpg

P1150778.jpg

P1150779.jpg

P1150780.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...