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M1 Carbine Bayonet - from WW2?


ConfederateCanuck
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ConfederateCanuck

Hi everyone. This is my 1st post ever on these Forums. You must get alot of postings similar to the one I just posted...but since I am totally new to collecting bayonets, I sure would appreciate your help. Can you please give me whatever information you can based on the various markings on my bayonet. Also, can you verify if it's from WW2? I am certain the scabbard is not.

post-226973-0-04606600-1563130213_thumb.jpg

 

Ummmm.....how do I post multiple pictures??? It's not allowing me.

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The total of the pictures size has to be less than 251KB, just make the pictures smaller or make a reply to your post with more pictures.

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Confederate Canuck- On behalf of everyone! Welcome to the forum. Lots of good, knowledgeable, folks here. You will enjoy! Now, first off, what is the name of the manufacturer stamped on the front of the guard? Camillus, Imperial, and PAL, all used brown, or black spacers in their WW2 M4 production. The grooves in the leather handle appear to be "V" shaped which are characteristic of late war production. Imperial made both square cut, and "V" cut grooves. SKIP

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ConfederateCanuck

2nd pic shows its PAL. RE pommel peen...through use the peen could have been worn/hammered into the shape it is now. There are other signs of wear on the pommel. I have alot of experience with vintage firearms,all the way back to 1850s weapons so I know that wear and tear can alter the metal...but I definitely wouldnt know if that pommel was worn, repaired, or fake.

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ConfederateCanuck

So you think it's a fake? Any other features or markings that would suggest it's real or fake?

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No, it is made of steel.

 

The guard markings look a little different to me than mine or the Cunningham picture but I am not an M4 expert.

 

Also I noticed that none of my PAL M4 blades had those machining marks below the false edge.

post-165606-0-64110300-1563138154.jpg

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ConfederateCanuck,

First of all, welcome to the forum.

When I look at a used leather handled M4 bayonet, the first thing I do is look at the cross guard, if it has parallel sides, like yours does, then I know it is a WWII cross guard. Then I look.at the peen on the end. If it is smooth, and not a starburst pattern, I immediately get suspicious. A CASE manufactured M4 bayonet does not have a starburst peen, but all others have it. The only reason an M4 would not have the starburst peen, is that it has been tampered with. (other than CASE, of course). The usual reason for this tampering, is to take off the latch plate and then replace the leather grips, and then replace the latch plate, re-peening the tang end. Your bayonet, however, has what looks like original grips. They could have been replaced decades ago, perhaps, but it's not likely, since the plastic spacers are still intact. Those are usually tossed, not being really necessary.

The part of your bayonet that has me most concerned, is the last picture you post, of the blade. There are no M4s that I have seen that have the vertical striations in the grind of the blade like yours does. Those are found on some much later M7 bayonets in the 1960s. Or, someone may have modified the blade. I'm not too sure that an amateur would be able to create those perfect grind marks. On the other hand, would an expert knife smith leave those grind marks in the blade, when the rest of the blade is so smooth? One possibility, is that rather than replacing the grips, someone actually replaced the whole blade with a later M7 blade.
They could remove the latch plate, slip off the leather washers, then take an M7 bayonet blade, modify the tang as necessary, then slip on the leather washers along with the plastic spacers, then re- attach the latch plate.

 

I'm not saying that any of these possibilities are what actually happened, just that there are some "red flags" here, that are a cause for concern.

Marv

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ConfederateCanuck

I appreciate the input, even if it may suggest its fake or tampered with. Keep the info coming, guys! It's the only way to learn.

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