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ski items never used in combat


coolman
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did the US army ever use ski troops in WWII combat like the germans did? US ski goggles & other ski specialised gear most of the times sales too cheap bc never used in combat as some ppl say

i have seen here huge lots of ski goggles brand new in crates that nobody wants to buy.... crying.gif

mountain parkas & trousers we know have seen alot of action in italy by 1st SSF & 10th mountain division but im not sure abt the rest gear...mountain boots- goggles- skis- caps etc...

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Salvage Sailor
did the US army ever use ski troops in WWII combat like the germans did? US ski goggles & other ski specialised gear most of the times sales too cheap bc never used in combat as some ppl say

i have seen here huge lots of ski goggles brand new in crates that nobody wants to buy.... crying.gif

mountain parkas & trousers we know have seen alot of action in italy by 1st SSF & 10th mountain division but im not sure abt the rest gear...mountain boots- goggles- skis- caps etc...

 

10th Mountain ski patrol in Appenines Mountains, April 1945 by Margaret Bourke White, Life Photographer

 

(check out the M8A1 scabbard too)

10th_mountain_a.jpg

10th_mountain_b.jpg

10th_mountain_c.jpg

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craig_pickrall

I have read before, but can't recall the source, that the 10th MTN DIV shipped out through Virginia ports and they dropped all of their special gear at Ft Lee before embarking. That was the skis, poles, ice axes, piton hammers, etc. Later they used these same items captured from the Germans. They kept their special clothing, boots, cook sets and stoves, etc.

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I knew guys who had served in Germany in the 1950s and 1960s, in the 1st and 8th Inf Divs and 10th SF, who said that WWII ski and mountain gear was stacked to the ceilings in various warehouses as "war reserve stocks". Every few years, the stuff would be broken out and issued for mountain warfare training. My sources said that there was so much of it available, there was no mandated, enforced turn-in; many mountain rucks, mountain trousers and parkas went home with the users. The SF guy (a mountain/ski instructor) said that the bales and crates bore markings linking them to the 10th Mnt Div and addressed to the 10th in Italy, in 1944. So maybe this was stuff that was dumped at "Ft Lee" (how about Norfolk POE?) and then sent on later?

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thanks guys...good pictures indeed but seems that ski troops were not the favoured troops of the US army...they used mountain troops in italy in a commandos role without skis...they manufactured alot of ski-arctic gear for a possible war theater in Alaska or alsewere but never used & locked to the warehouse or iven to greece other countries...thinking of the huge lots of ski goggles i'v seen in greece probably the whole quantity given to greece post war

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I was in the 10th Mtn in the early 90's and talked frequently with WWII Div vets as I was selected by the CG to write a short Div history. As I recall skis were only used for a few weeks after the arrival of the Div in Italy primarily for patrolling and recon.

 

In Peter Shelton's Climb to Glory he writes, "When the order came to board ship at last (December 11 for the 86th, January 4, 1945, for the other regiments), the mountain troops left port without their mountain equipment—their skis and mountain boots, their white anoraks and down sleeping bags. They had instead been issued standard infantry khaki and rubber shoepacs. A concerned senior officer wrote to Minnie Dole, and Dole fired off a letter of complaint to General Marshall's office. To Dole's surprise, the answer came not from official Washington but from General Hays himself. Hays explained in no uncertain terms that he was now commander of the division and responsible for its welfare, and he concluded, "I shall brook no interference whatsoever."

 

The 86th Infantry Regiment, 10th Mtn Div was the first Division unit to see combat in Italy on 8 Jan 45 near Cutigliano and Orsigna as part of the 5th Army's Task Force 45.

 

According to Curtis Casweit's Mountain Troopers, "There were marches, hike and patrols on skis... Some of the daytime reconnaissance was done on skis. Skis made it possible to cross the frozen rivers, to claw upward through deep drifts that would otherwise reach to a man's shoulders. Skis made it possible to get away fast, especially inf the escape route led downhill. The white skis blended with the snow of course. When they stood still, troopers could hardly be seen. The white parkas and while poles concealed a man. If he moved in close to the enemy, though, a trooper had to remove his skis. Wood made a clattering sound; walking was less noisy. The Germans used the same tactics and their troopers were also camouflaged."

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And finally in Whitlock and Bishop's Soldiers on Skis: A Pictorial Memoir of the 10th Mountain Division, "When it reached the front, the 10th's first mission was patrolling the forward area to determine who the enemy was, where he was and what he was doing. A few of the early patrols were made on skis, but, as the weather improved, the snows melted and the skis - and almost three years of military ski training - were set aside.

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I was in the 10th Mtn in the early 90's and talked frequently with WWII Div vets as I was selected by the CG to write a short Div history. As I recall skis were only used for a few weeks after the arrival of the Div in Italy primarily for patrolling and recon.

 

In Peter Shelton's Climb to Glory he writes, "When the order came to board ship at last (December 11 for the 86th, January 4, 1945, for the other regiments), the mountain troops left port without their mountain equipment—their skis and mountain boots, their white anoraks and down sleeping bags. They had instead been issued standard infantry khaki and rubber shoepacs. A concerned senior officer wrote to Minnie Dole, and Dole fired off a letter of complaint to General Marshall's office. To Dole's surprise, the answer came not from official Washington but from General Hays himself. Hays explained in no uncertain terms that he was now commander of the division and responsible for its welfare, and he concluded, "I shall brook no interference whatsoever."

 

The 86th Infantry Regiment, 10th Mtn Div was the first Division unit to see combat in Italy on 8 Jan 45 near Cutigliano and Orsigna as part of the 5th Army's Task Force 45.

 

According to Curtis Casweit's Mountain Troopers, "There were marches, hike and patrols on skis... Some of the daytime reconnaissance was done on skis. Skis made it possible to cross the frozen rivers, to claw upward through deep drifts that would otherwise reach to a man's shoulders. Skis made it possible to get away fast, especially inf the escape route led downhill. The white skis blended with the snow of course. When they stood still, troopers could hardly be seen. The white parkas and while poles concealed a man. If he moved in close to the enemy, though, a trooper had to remove his skis. Wood made a clattering sound; walking was less noisy. The Germans used the same tactics and their troopers were also camouflaged."

ehrentitle very imformative report...some use of ski troops has also reported in Alsace 1945 were it was freezing cold but i doubth if in any case in italy or france the troops used the whole range of the specialised arctic equipments...all the pictures of its use comes from stateside training...i dont say the arctic equipments were test equipment bc passed successfully the tests & went to full production but never used in combat...i have'nt seen ever a combat picture of the ski goggles but i have seen a bunch of training pictures

 

mountain trousers-1st 2nd & 3rd type reversible parkas-mountain jackets-mountain rucksacks & M1941 khaki sleeping bags have seen alot of action in italy but all the rest staff like ski gogles ice axes- piton hammers- mountain cap-white felt micky mouse arctic buckle boots etc i doubth that ever left united states

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ehrentitle very imformative report...some use of ski troops has also reported in Alsace 1945 were it was freezing cold but i doubth if in any case in italy or france the troops used the whole range of the specialised arctic equipments...all the pictures of its use comes from stateside training...i dont say the arctic equipments were test equipment bc passed successfully the tests & went to full production but never used in combat...i have'nt seen ever a combat picture of the ski goggles but i have seen a bunch of training pictures

 

mountain trousers-1st 2nd & 3rd type reversible parkas-mountain jackets-mountain rucksacks & M1941 khaki sleeping bags have seen alot of action in italy but all the rest staff like ski gogles ice axes- piton hammers- mountain cap-white felt micky mouse arctic buckle boots etc i doubth that ever left united states

 

Coolman - Soldiers on Skis: A Pictorial Memoir of the 10th Mountain Division, has several phontos of skis and snowshoes being used on patrol in Jan 45. Including one of a Weasel towing skiers toward the enemy lines. But I'm hesitant to scan and post them here because of copyright issues. And there are mountain caps and ski goggles in a few.

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I should note here, this is not my area of expertise..... but I do know for certain that a large number

of British Made White Windproof Smocks were used, even by U.S forces during WW2.

Not sure if your really needing to know this, but I thought I'd add it as it does have something to do

with winter gear used by the U.S.

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I should note here, this is not my area of expertise..... but I do know for certain that a large number

of British Made White Windproof Smocks were used, even by U.S forces during WW2.

Not sure if your really needing to know this, but I thought I'd add it as it does have something to do

with winter gear used by the U.S.

i know the story with the british smocks...rumors of its use in the battle of the bulge exists...some ppl says they never used there & some ppl say they did...i have seen one picture of the trousers but its probably somewhere to the west wall in january 1945 on the closing days of the allied counterattack or maybe after that...the normal was civilian sheets taken from belgian houses with a hole for the head & wearing in poncho fashion... if you think the shortage of more essential warm garments in the ardennes i think british smocks sounds as a very luxury item..way too luxury to be there

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Like I said, this area is not of my expertise.

But, the photos I have seen are of U.S mortar crews, I imagine the Ardennes.

You are very correct though, about the sheets being used....this is a common scene in photos.

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Like I said, this area is not of my expertise.

But, the photos I have seen are of U.S mortar crews, I imagine the Ardennes.

You are very correct though, about the sheets being used....this is a common scene in photos.

they were american snow smocks & trousers also but i doubth that ever used in europe...

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Nope. The American mortar crews I saw, were wearing brit. made smocks.

Too bad I never copied the photo. I could've posted it here. I know what these smocks look

like to a pinpoint, as I own the camo version.

Duffy

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Thank you for your time in getting this link, I took a look but they are not the photos.

I saw it not too long ago, I cannot recall if it might of been on the forum somewhere

or what....maybe somewhere on the web.

All I remember is that whoever posted the pic, had pointed it out that the smocks were

brit. issue and you could see that the troops wearing them were U.S.

I really do wish I would stumble upon this photo again.

It was very obvious that the smocks were Brit. issue, if you closely looked at it.

Duffy

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Here is an interesting photo from the Denver Public Library collection reference above:

 

00200001.jpg

Three Tenth Mountain Division soldiers observe an Italian town from a fenced vantage point. All carry weapons and wear white camouflage coats, one has skis. Date [1945].

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is there much value for named 10th MD skis and poles, excellent shape w/most of the white paint intact?

 

thanks, and happy yuletide!

 

david

 

 

 

 

quote name='ehrentitle' date='Dec 25 2008, 01:17 PM' post='247150'

Here is an interesting photo from the Denver Public Library collection reference above:

 

00200001.jpg

Three Tenth Mountain Division soldiers observe an Italian town from a fenced vantage point. All carry weapons and wear white camouflage coats, one has skis. Date [1945].

quote

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