Tracing Indian War Medal

[hawk3370]

I recently acquired an early Indian War Medal No. 114. I do not have Al Gleim's roster on the Indian War Medal and have no way of tracing who this was issued to. If any of you gents have that ability I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks.

[aznation]

I don't know but the number looks like No. 144 to me, or is that just a reference pic of another medal?

[tarbridge]

I can in the morning if nobody gets it for you tonight.

It looks like #144 to me also.

[Bruce Linz]

Indian War Medal No. 144 was issued to Henry S. Kilbourne, Lieutenant Colonel, Retired on 08 February 1908.

[hawk3370]

Indian War Medal No. 144 was issued to Henry S. Kilbourne, Lieutenant Colonel, Retired on 08 February 1908.

 

Thanks much Bruce you have been most helpful. The medal is part of a group that included Span Am Campaign Medal also numbered but I was most concerned about the Indian War medal. From what I understand Kilbourne was a Medical Officer eventually retiring as a Lt. Col.

[unclegrumpy]

A couple of interesting links:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/178451-interesting-grouping-civil-war-to-ww11/

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/denver_200904A06_03.html

[KASTAUFFER]

A couple of interesting links:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/178451-interesting-grouping-civil-war-to-ww11/

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/denver_200904A06_03.html

 

Most interesting indeed. I hope the group is still all together.

 

Kurt

[hawk3370]

 

Most interesting indeed. I hope the group is still all together.

 

Kurt

 

KURT,

TIS ALL TOGETHER AND I MAY SAY I THINK IT FOUND A GOOD HOME HERE WITH ME. SOMETIMES I MANAGE TO STEP INTO THE PILE AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING OTHER THAN CRAP ON MY SHOE, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE I FINALLY WON ONE. THANKS TO ALL THAT HAVE PROVIDED INFORMATION TO THIS SUBJECT, NOW I CAN REST IN PEACE KNOWING IT IS NOT A PUT TOGETHER GROUP BUT INDEED THAT OF LTC KILBOURNE.

 

TERRY

 

[tarbridge]

 

KURT,

TIS ALL TOGETHER AND I MAY SAY I THINK IT FOUND A GOOD HOME HERE WITH ME. SOMETIMES I MANAGE TO STEP INTO THE PILE AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING OTHER THAN CRAP ON MY SHOE, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE I FINALLY WON ONE. THANKS TO ALL THAT HAVE PROVIDED INFORMATION TO THIS SUBJECT, NOW I CAN REST IN PEACE KNOWING IT IS NOT A PUT TOGETHER GROUP BUT INDEED THAT OF LTC KILBOURNE.

 

TERRY

 

Yes...Congratulations on your "pile" find...no smell here...

[KASTAUFFER]

 

KURT,

TIS ALL TOGETHER AND I MAY SAY I THINK IT FOUND A GOOD HOME HERE WITH ME. SOMETIMES I MANAGE TO STEP INTO THE PILE AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING OTHER THAN CRAP ON MY SHOE, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE I FINALLY WON ONE. THANKS TO ALL THAT HAVE PROVIDED INFORMATION TO THIS SUBJECT, NOW I CAN REST IN PEACE KNOWING IT IS NOT A PUT TOGETHER GROUP BUT INDEED THAT OF LTC KILBOURNE.

 

TERRY

 

 

Glad to hear its been kept all together!

 

Kurt

[hawk3370]

This is the complete set recently acquired. The SA War medal is numbered No 776, a 5th Corp medal and Society Santiago de Cuba cross and SA Vet medal. The ribbon on the SA War Medal is incorrect, somewhere along the line someone put the WW1 Victory ribbon on the medal. The Santiago De Cuba is somewhat of a mystery to me as there were three variations the bronze cross being the third as I understand. Most officers received an enameled version so why he received a bronze one I can't say. It does have his name inscribed on the back in script. I don't have them in hand as of yet, should be here in about a week. They are all housed in a Bailey Banks and Biddle case.

[JBFloyd]

Nice group. He got the bronze Santiago because that's what he ordered. These were not issued, but purchased from the society. It all depended upon how much the member was willing to spend.

[hawk3370]

Nice group. He got the bronze Santiago because that's what he ordered. These were not issued, but purchased from the society. It all depended upon how much the member was willing to spend.

 

Jeff,

Thanks that clears that up. Little by little with the knowledge of the members this group is gaining strength. Thanks to all that have helped.

 

[KASTAUFFER]

I just checked the rolls and he is not on the Philippine list. Looks like you have all of his medals except the DSM, WWI Victory and the Mexican Campaign. The Mexico and DSM were in the old photos of the group. Were you able to get them?

 

Kurt

[KASTAUFFER]

I was able to snag the old Ebay description from a few years ago. It looks like the Mexico and DSM were not included when they were sold:

 

Excellent 5 Medal Grouping for this distinguished West Point Graduate and Officer.

ORIGINAL LTC HENRY SAYLES KILBOURNE 1840-1910, CONTRACT SURGEON IN THE US ARMY AND COMMISIONED IN THE ARMY IN 1875, INDIAN WARS, SPANISH AMERICAN WAR AWARDS.

LTC HENRY SAYLES KILBOURNE IS BURIED AT ARLINGTON CEMETARY

1892 MILITARY STAFF WEST POINT MILITARY ACADEMY (CAPT HENRY SAYLES KILBOURNE, ASST SURGEON US ARMY)

RETIRED IN 1904 AS THE ASSISTANT SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES

MEDAL GROUP AS FOLLOWS:

IN ORIGINAL BAILEY BANKS BIDDLE CASE INCLUDED

All Original Medals.

1.)Indian Wars Medal No. 144. (copy of the rolls of recipients for No. 144) Has the faint black edge Ribbon. 10TH CAVALARY FORT SILLS OKLAHOMA TERRITORY

2.)Grand Army of the Republic (F264 41) number on back. and two GAR lapel button hole medals included,

He should also have the Civil War Medal which I don't have...

3.)No. 343 Society of the Army of Santiago (Number in the rolls don't usually match the number on the medal)

(on the back, Major HS Kilbourne) (I have a copy of his name in the rolls)

4.)No. 776 War with Spain, Includes the Miniature pocket version (Named rolls also included)

5.) V Corps, Red with Blue border for the 2nd Division of the V (5th) Army, Baily Banks Biddle "Silver" marked. (inscribed 1793/388).

He was the Chief Surgeon of the Transport Division.

Indian wars Ribbon is a match and of the quality and expert sewing of the original.

Same with the Society of Santiago is original Ribbon. and V corps and the Mexican War and the GAR Has not been Re-Ribboned.

Henry Sayles Kilbourne, Civil War, who served as a medical cadet and Asst. Surgeon. His thesis is titled "Chronic Diarrhea as Observed in the United States Army" (1865).

During Civil War; in action with regular Brigade at Stone River, Tenn., Chickamauga Ga. and Missionary, Ridge Tenn.

THIS IS A MAJOR HISTORICAL GROUP. THE WRITINGS BY KILBOURNE AND HIS DRAWINGS FEATURED ON THE ROADSHOW SHOW THE SIGNIFICANT ROLE HE PLAYED IN THE WEST AND INDIAN CONFLICT. HIS MEMOIRS ARE MOVING AND DRAMATIC AND GIVE THE FEELING OF ACTUALLY RIDING ALONG WITH HIM AND THE INDIAN BRAVE IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUFFALO STAMPEDE. GO AND READ THE STORIES ARCHIVED ON THE ROADSHOW.

(NO MEMOIRS OR DRAWINGS ARE INCLUDED IN THIS GROUP; NOR DO I HAVE ANY)

Take a look and see the 2009 antiques road show episode about the Soules photographs and the Kilbourne manuscript and drawings from Fort Sills 1875 where he was posted.

CLICK HERE FOR ANTIQUES ROADSHOW EPISODE showing the LTC Henry Sayles Kilbourne Manuscripts and drawings.

I compared it to the one at the Army Heritage Museum Collection and looks identical except mine is very clean. The sewn thread is the same red color and sewn expertly and not haphazard like a re-done one.

HERITAGE MUSEUM INDIAN WARSMEDAL EXAMPLE

Register of the Empire State Society of the Sons of the American Revolution

Sons of the American Revolution. Empire State SocietyHenry Sayles Kilbourne United States Army

Major and Surgeon USA. Born Vernon, N.Y., aug 14, 1840. Acting Assistant Surgeon, U.S.A. during Civil War; in action with regular Brigade at Stone River, Tenn., Chickamauga Ga. and Missionary, Ridge Tenn. In war with Spain, was Chief Surgeon, 2nd Division, 5th Corps, Army of Santiago de Cuba. member Society of the Army of Cumberland, GAR and Association of the Military Surgeons of the United States. Son of Charles Kilbourne and Margaret Sergeant Sayles; Grandson of Giles Kilbourne and Abigail Doane, and of Welcome Sayles and Harriet Sergeant; Grat Grandson of John Kilbourne and Anna Smith, and Thomas Sayles and Prudence his wife; grt2 grandson of Samuel Kilbourne and marry Garret, grt3-grandson of Aabraham Kilbourne and Sara Goodrich,grt2-grandson of John Kilbourne and Susannah Hills.

EXCERPS FROM THE ANTIQUES ROADSHOW:

The American Plains bison (Bison bison bison) — also commonly referred to as the buffalo — was a victim of unrestricted and callous sport-hunting by whites, but it is sometimes forgotten that this slaughter was also a tool of war, wielded by settlers and even the government against the natives. Bison were a powerful symbol to Plains Indians, but only because they were so materially important. Tribes like the Kiowa derived food, clothing, tools, eating utensils, and shelter from all parts of the animal. If this resource were depleted, reasoned the government's war-makers, the populations that depended upon it could be more easily cajoled into moving onto reservations.

The Kiowa were especially vulnerable to the consequences of declining bison populations, as they were a fully nomadic tribe that followed the bison migration. And although the Kiowa had long been raiding nearby populations of whites and natives alike for sustenance, horses, rifles, and wealth, by the time Soule photographed Satanta, his tribe was in nearly constant conflict with whites, and, therefore, with the growing power of Washington. In his manuscript "The Arrest of the Kiowa Chiefs," Kilbourne describes a famous incident, known as the Warren Wagon Train Raid, in which Satanta and other Kiowa attacked and looted a wagon train, killing and mutilating the teamsters who were trying to drive it across the Plains. In the aftermath, the Kiowa were arrested, and became the first Native Americans to be tried for murder in civilian courts. This move reflected a new strategy to deny the Native American resistance the status of fighters in a legitimate struggle.

The Arrest of the Kiowa Chiefs
Kilbourne was apparently a witness to the arrest of the Kiowa. In reading over his manuscript, however, Lonny noticed a discrepancy with other historical accounts. "It seems a little different," says Lonny, "because I think books usually say that [the Kiowa warrior] Satank took a knife and stabbed a teamster when they were taking him off to jail. But in Kilbourne's manuscript it says he took a rifle and was trying to load it. So that's a major difference I found. Whether one's more correct than the other I don't know."

Some accounts contain both variants, and describe Satank stabbing his captor, then seizing his rifle. Regardless, the outcome for Satank was what he intended — before he could do any damage with the rifle, Satank himself was shot and killed, and thus escaped incarceration.

After several years in the Indian Territory, Soule returned east, eventually selling off his photography business, including his glass plates. Some were lost, but many have been conserved. Kilbourne, who'd been merely a contract surgeon during the Civil War, was commissioned as a U.S. Army officer in 1875, and would go on to become a prominent military physician, retiring in 1904 as assistant surgeon general of the Army. It's around that time, it is believed, that he gathered his sketches, his photos, and his thoughts.

"Based upon my experience with this kind of material," says Cowan, "guys who'd been involved in the Indian Wars in the 1860s and 1870s — these guys were in their 50s, which was old back then — started writing these memoirs. The same thing happened with Civil War vets at about the same time. It was a momentous period in our history, and their thinking was, 'I need to write this down. It's important for someone to know this.'"

Lonny plans to carry on conserving his collection, perhaps one day passing it on to his son, who's begun to show interest. In his spare time, he continues to do research into Kilbourne's life. Readers can do the same by viewing the accompanying slideshow of photos and sketches, with captions pulled directly from Kilbourne's memoir.

Lonny has also permitted ANTIQUES ROADSHOW to publish three chapters of Kilbourne's memoirs, we believe for the first time.

[KASTAUFFER]

Looks like the DSM and Mexico was to another relative. Makes sense why they are not there. They were sold on the forum.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/181509-dsm-historical-group-related-to-ltc-kilbourne-group/

[hawk3370]

Looks like the DSM and Mexico was to another relative. Makes sense why they are not there. They were sold on the forum.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/181509-dsm-historical-group-related-to-ltc-kilbourne-group/

 

Thanks much, yes the DSM and WW1 would not have been his as he died in 1910. I am pleased with what I got and especially pleased with the out pouring of information from members of the forum. You all have been most helpful. I did down load some of his published memoirs to add to the group.

 

[BEAST]

Terry, I'm not sure what you stepped in, but you sure came up smelling like roses! What a fantastic group!

[epsomgreen]

By "virtue" of having the fastest finger, I acquired the well-traveled Kilbourne group through AGM recently.  I took the liberty of replacing the incorrect VM ribbon (pictured above) of the Spanish War Campaign Medal with an original early issue ribbon with correct brooch.  The GAR membership badge was received with a lengthy modern synthetic ribbon, which I also replaced with a relatively intact original.  The dress miniature VM remains a mystery as Kilbourne died in 1910.  However, Kilbourne's son, Henry, Jr. was an USMA graduate (Class of 1903) and veteran of the Sp-Am War and WWI.

The group was accompanied with a six-piece Bailey Banks & Biddle chest containing two GAR brass lapel buttons and three Society of the Army of Santiago de Cuba rosettes.  I decided the purple velvet interior of the chest would benefit from a careful micro-tool vacuuming.  In the process, I spotted a bit of red ribbon and a hint of brass showing through a rent in one of the medal pockets.  The thick white paper lining of the pocket had collapsed inward, burying the treasure inside, which proved to be a pristine ribbon bar for Kilbourne's Indian Wars Campaign Medal.  I don't know how this was missed by the previous custodians, but I was thrilled to find it.

Hopefully, my restorations have done right by Henry Sayles Kilbourne.  I have unearthed a great deal of personal data through Ancestry and Fold3, and hope to receive his personnel records from the National Archives in the future. 

Best regards,

 

Charles

[manayunkman]

Very nice group.

[epsomgreen]

Earlier this week, I received Kilbourne's service and pension files, which have made for fascinating reading.  Though he did not receive the Phillipine Campaign Medal, Lt. Col. Kilbourne, then Deputy Surgeon General of the Army, was on duty in the Philippines from April 1903 until July 1904.  Furthermore, as a contract, or acting assistant, surgeon with the Union Army, he had no military rank or status, and as such was ineligible for a Civil War Campaign Medal.  This criteria also applied to his service time when determining his pension.  Despite being in uniform and following military orders since 1862, his regular service with the U.S. Army did not commence officially until July 1875. 

In 1909, a number of former Civil War acting assistant surgeons sought, unfavorably, redress for not being eligible to retire at a higher grade via a precedent established in the Byrnes v. U.S. Act of 1883 and Act of April 23rd, 1904.  Kilbourne was among these officers.  Consequently, he did not enjoy the rank of full Colonel at the time of his death on 16 May 1910, despite a distinguished career that included an 1897 medical monograph, The Physical Proportions of the American Soldier.  Kilbourne was also a member of the Association of Military Surgeons, Society of the Army of the Cumberland, and the Sons of the American Revolution.

The attached portrait was among the documents in his service file:

[epsomgreen]

Erratum:  "Philippine" Campaign Medal