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Mystery Funeral in Alaska


notinfringed
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Look at the cars, can anyone give a year, make and model on them. My guess is this is the reburial at Kiska.

All the graves are fresh in the photo

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notinfringed

Thanks for all the help everyone. I was wondering about these photos, because it doesn't look like the vegetation in Sitka. I actually looks more like the interior, but Anchorage is similar in some locations. Most of the shots of the Ft. Richardson cemetery I have seen have the Chugach Mountains in the background. This must be facing the other way. I may be entirely wrong about whose funeral this is. I need to research who was in the plot next to Mr. Strasburg in the Ft Richardson cemetery before the move in 1948. They may not have kept the same locations after the move to Sitka. I will try to contact the Cemetery on Monday and see if they have any records, but somehow I doubt it. I suspect they would have gotten rid of them once the remains were removed from their care. Thanks again for all the help. If it does turn out to be Mr. Both's funeral, it is great to have all the information you all have provided.

Levi

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The thing to do is look for both plot numbers, if this is the Sitka reburial then they will be listed side by side. Your photo's have hills in one and mountains in the backgrounds. Like I said all of the graves are fresh turned earth.

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notinfringed

Strasburg is in AA9 at Sitka. I think this confirms your photos are of the reburial.

I don't think so. The album says that the pictures belonged to a vet who was in alaska in 1944 an 1945. The scenery doesn't look like Sitka, and furthermore, the Strasburg tombstone is definitely not the one currently on the grave in Sitka. I'm pretty sure it is Fort Richardson
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notinfringed

Strasburg is in AA9 at Sitka. I think this confirms your photos are of the reburial.

I don't think so. The album says that the pictures belonged to a vet who was in alaska in 1944 an 1945. The scenery doesn't look like Sitka, and furthermore, the Strasburg tombstone is definitely not the one currently on the grave in Sitka. I'm pretty sure it is Fort Richardson
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I don't think so. The album says that the pictures belonged to a vet who was in alaska in 1944 an 1945. The scenery doesn't look like Sitka, and furthermore, the Strasburg tombstone is definitely not the one currently on the grave in Sitka. I'm pretty sure it is Fort Richardson

All of those markers in the photo's are temporary ones made of wood. Stone markers came later, this is common. As I said look at the photo and you will see all freshly dug graves, only dirt. They went in in the same time frame, not over time and the facts are the record shows those soldiers were buried one next to the other in Kiska and the records show what is seen in your photo's.

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For what it's worth, that's a very nice coffin for a wartime casualty. I'd theorize they were either near civilization or were able to access a town fairly quickly that had a mortuary with civilian coffins as well as the concrete burial vault for a formal burial (this coffin wasn't designed for direct burial). Typically, in a wartime situation, a wooden box would be notable; the vast majority of wartime casualties were buried in shrouds or blankets based on the unavailability of coffins and the expectation of exhumation and reburial at a later time.

 

Just a random note...

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If you were to order his IDPF (usually take s a bit of waiting, but always worth it!), it should have all the documents about the reburial and what they dug up and how and when they reburied it. Might be interesting to see about ordering it. :) I'd agree with others about this being the reburial in Sitka. The coffin, all the freshly dug graves, and the temp wooden marker of the other guy. Would lead me to think this is the Sitka cem.

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I think you are missing one thing, and it's this. The vet who owned the photo album did not take the photo's. That is a military funeral and it was taken at the time of the reburial. The person who took the photo's had freedom of movement during a somber occasion. The only person who could do that would be the soldier assigned to be the photographer for that funeral. The owner of the album may have known Both and those photo's were sent to him after he left the area.

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notinfringed

I'm not trying to be contrary, but I still disagree. I am fairly confident this is Anchorage. Here are a few thoughts and conclusions I would like to point out.

1. The Sitka cemetery is right in the middle of town, not on a base.

2. The pictures show the deceased being carried from a Quonset hut which is clearly on a base somewhere, and there are no shots of any type of Hearse or truck for transport.

3. The Ft. Richardson cemetery is right in the middle of the base.

4. The Sitka Cemetery is located with a hill in the middle. Plot aa9 is located just to the left of the hill. Some of these photos would have to have been taken from on the hill, and would have a more "from above" vantage point.

5. The Sitka cemetery is relatively small, and surrounded by thick trees and tall Sitka spruce. If you go to google maps, and zoom in to street view, you will see what I am talking about.

6. It is still common practice here in Alaska to wait until after break up to bury the dead. It is virtually impossible to dig in the winter without building a fire on the ground and thawing it out while you dig.

7. The Quonset hut the funeral procession is leaving has the windows boarded up and appears (to me) to be extra insulated. There is usually an overhang of a few inches of roof on the end cap which this hut doesn't seem to have. I suspect this is the base morgue/temporary storage. I know this is just a wild guess, but bear with me.

8. October of 1944 was an extremely mild Fall. Even in relatively cold years, Anchorage and Sitka rarely have snow on the ground and all the leaves off the trees in early Oct. This leads me to believe this is definitely during Spring. Therefore, it is either the reburial in Sitka in 1948 (which we would assume they would wait until mid summer for), they waited a ridiculously long time to bury Mr. Both, or we have the wrong man.

9. If this were Mr. Both's funeral, I would expect to see at least one 11th Air Force man in the procession. All men wear the Alaska Command insignia, but not the 11th. Not definitive by any means, but something to think about.

10. The owner of the album was in Alaska in 1944 and 1945. He labeled the album as "pictures taken in 1944 and 1945". If he had been here in 1948, it suspect it would have said "1944-1948"

I really think we may have the wrong guy. Here is a map of the Sitka cemetery and a poor picture pulled from the internet showing the hill with the flag pole. Plot aa10 would be to the left in the picture, on the hillside. Also here is a picture of the inside of the album:

 

 

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notinfringed

I think you are missing one thing, and it's this. The vet who owned the photo album did not take the photo's. That is a military funeral and it was taken at the time of the reburial. The person who took the photo's had freedom of movement during a somber occasion. The only person who could do that would be the soldier assigned to be the photographer for that funeral. The owner of the album may have known Both and those photo's were sent to him after he left the area.

 

That's a good point. Something to think about for sure.

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During the original burial I would expect to see the 11th patch too. I looked at the patch's and you are correct, they are Alaska command patch's. It's an Army burial detail for the reburial. Note no friends are present, only the detail of officers and soldiers for the reburial. Count the soldiers, those that carry the casket, those for the honor guard and those for the 21 gun salute. Those are the people shown in the photo's. No members of other bomber crews, it is a small affair. Another thing you may not know, the focal points of the cameras used then draw the background closer than it is in real life. I have been to 140 military crash sites and the photo's from the mishap reports always show background closer than it really is.

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notinfringed

I'm sorry, but there is no way these pictures are from September 1, 1948 in Sitka. you can see ice and snow on the ground. Sitka's Weather is far too mild for that. The farmers almanac has the Low on that day as 48, and a high of 60. Also, the small scrubby evergreens in the back ground are a form of Black Spruce that typically grow over permafrost. Sitka is known for the Sitka Spruce (the state tree), and they are huge. This is simply not Sitka in Sept. I will let you know if I find out more.

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Are you sure? Look at the photo's again. It's two different locations. I see two groups for a 21 gun salute. One next to the quanset huts and one at grave side. One salute for leaving and one for arriving. Look at military protocol for such events. You are looking at the transfer of Both from Ft. Richardson to Kiska cemetary. Look at the burial grounds. No indication of it being on a base were as the other photo's are clearly on base. Also as you pointed out Richardson is a large cemetary surounded by a base. The burial ground shown in you photo's is a small place, you can see how small it is in the photo's. As you noted the weather is at play here. Look at all of the soldiers, none of them is in winter gear. As you said by Alaska standards this was a mild day

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Are you sure? Look at the photo's again. It's two different locations. I see two groups for a 21 gun salute. One next to the quanset huts and one at grave side. One salute for leaving and one for arriving. Look at military protocol for such events. You are looking at the transfer of Both from Ft. Richardson to Kiska cemetary. Look at the burial grounds. No indication of it being on a base were as the other photo's are clearly on base. Also as you pointed out Richardson is a large cemetary surounded by a base. The burial ground shown in you photo's is a small place, you can see how small it is in the photo's. As you noted the weather is at play here. Look at all of the soldiers, none of them is in winter gear. As you said by Alaska standards this was a mild weather

I have to change my statement. What looked like soldiers for a 21 gun salute at grave side are honor guards. I see no soldiers at grave side for the salute...only on base. If this is in the middle of Fort Richardson and is so easy to get to from the hut why is no one else at grave side?

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I did a google earth search of both cemetery's. The Fort Richardson cemetery is N/E of runway 35. The whole west side is flat as it is the overshoot of the runway. It is also not in the middle of the base, it sits off to the edge. The cemetery is ringed in trees, but looks to sit on ground above the runway. I could not match the background hills to either cemetery. In either event burial sites for either location would have required transportation by hurst. They are just too far away from anything to walk. As a side note your photo of Richardson is hills and Sitka is flat as shown in your photo's and the casket photo with the cars in the background was taken after the event. No one is around and the hurst would have been long gone.

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I take back my retraction, If you really zoom in on the casket at grave side you will see the soldiers are holding weapons, this is a second 21 gun salute team.

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notinfringed

Thanks for the help. One way or another, I want to see if the Ft. Richardson (now JBER) cemetery has any historical data. I would love to be able to say 100% that this is the remains of Mr. Both, but I still have mild doubts. I will call them this week, and hopefully I can cut through the red tape and find the right person to talk to. If you are interested, I will be posting the entire album on my Facebook group "Alaska Military History Association". It will be titled "album 40" in the albums section.

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Thanks for the help. One way or another, I want to see if the Ft. Richardson (now JBER) cemetery has any historical data. I would love to be able to say 100% that this is the remains of Mr. Both, but I still have mild doubts. I will call them this week, and hopefully I can cut through the red tape and find the right person to talk to. If you are interested, I will be posting the entire album on my Facebook group "Alaska Military History Association". It will be titled "album 40" in the albums section

I agree with running down every possibility. I think the preponderance of circumstantial evidence weighs for my contention, but until you do your research I can only offer an educated opinion based on what I have seen so far. I was really hoping to get a match on those background hills to cinch it up, but with out that I can't. What I would really like to know is what other photo's are in your album? Please post the link to your FB site. As a side note I sent Pacific wrecks info on that B-24D crash with all the wrong tail numbers and the correct one. They did not have it in their data base and will be adding it. I also sent Baugher the incorrect tail numbers in the records associated with that bomber so he can add them to what is known. All in all allot of good work was done by many people that answered questions no one knew existed. Not bad! Good luck on your side. David

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