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New Holy Grail of Wings for me !


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#1 rooster77

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 02:37 PM

After almost a year of looking. I finally found a winner!

A Real Technical Observer Wing!

Im tripping out right now over this one!

 

Rooster

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#2 rooster77

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 02:38 PM

pins

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#3 WAHOOMAN

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 02:43 PM

Nice set of wings.  Congrats!!



#4 Mr.Jerry

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 03:18 PM

Sweet! One that continues to elude me...



#5 Navybean

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 03:38 PM

Nice wing never had a real one...have a bad one

#6 Tesla

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 04:05 PM

Really nice wings! Congrats Rooster!

#7 rustywings

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 04:47 PM

Hello Rooster,

 

I have no desire to rain on your parade, but there are a number of inconsistencies on the reverse of your T.O. wing to cause hesitation and concern. The somewhat distorted and worn "STERLING" mark; the unevenness of the circular rim on the reverse; and the knowledge this particular badge was heavily reproduced several decades ago; all give me heartburn...  



#8 costa

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:09 PM

on ebay??? I saw one like it and looked the other way.



#9 rooster77

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:26 PM

Thank you Thank you and Ouch!!!

Really? Faker?



#10 rooster77

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:28 PM

Well...... ??????



#11 rooster77

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:28 PM

Hello Rooster,

 

I have no desire to rain on your parade, but there are a number of inconsistencies on the reverse of your T.O. wing to cause hesitation and concern. The somewhat distorted and worn "STERLING" mark; the unevenness of the circular rim on the reverse; and the knowledge this particular badge was heavily reproduced several decades ago; all give me heartburn...  

 

Greetings Rustywings, Greetings all.

 

In polite rebutal ......

 

I knew I had seen this wing... I just couldnt place where....

 

I just want to post a link to a wing on bobs Schwartz Fantastic site!

 

http://www.ww2wings....hobserver.shtml

 

 and a post by Patrick here on the forum.....

 

http://www.usmilitar...er#entry2535868

 

And there is one for sale on the web. Same wing.

All of the wings linked here and my wing all have the same tells on the back. The same nicks and dents in the same spots.

My wing they appear more pronounced due to the lighting and the filthy wing.

 

Either the one I posted is fake or they all are fake as they all appear to have been struck from the same die.

Or, they are all (including this one) Genuine WW2 TO Wings. ?

 

Thank you.

Rooster.



#12 Kropotkin

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:06 AM

I know I have a dog in the fight here, but I believe this wing to be genuine. Knowing the heavy faking of TO wings, I was sure to conduct due diligence before buying on the TO wing I posted in the other thread, researching on here, Bob’s site and the Flying Tiger Antiques site which seems to be a reliable source trusted by the more advanced collectors on here. All these resources point towards this TO wing pattern as being an original.

#13 rustywings

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:36 AM

Hello Rooster,

 

To answer your question directly, no, I'm not a fan of those badges. I'm a big fan of several of their owners... but the wing itself is highly suspect in my layman opinion!

 

Authentic Technical Observer badges are exceedingly scarce. During my years of aggressive collecting, I was fortunate enough to purchase just a few real ones. Then approximately twenty years ago, that rough style variant which we're focused on, with all of its alleged die-struck asymmetrical flaws, suddenly appeared on the market in droves.

 

The availability of that particular mass-produced wing remains strong today. In fact, your thread and several of the threads you reference identify three more of those identical badges having been added to collections of Forum members in just the past six months!  And your statement that another one is available for purchase right now on eBay, I think speaks volumes of its questionability.

 

Just my two cents... 

 

Russ


Edited by rustywings, 14 March 2019 - 06:17 AM.


#14 rooster77

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:58 AM

Hi Rustywings.

I too did a lot of looking before I dropped the dime on this one.

I dont know when Kropotkin picked his up. Patrick got his in November.

The other wing I mentioned is not on ebay its on a website that sells authentic wings going back to ww1.

I really dont think the guy is into selling fakes.

Ive only seen this wing on the forum here, then theres the one on Bob Schwartz site, the wing site i mention and the one I got off ebay yesterday.

Does Bob Schwartz site post fakes? You commended Tesla for referencing Bobs site to verify a wing.

I did that. Thats why I felt confident about its purchase.

  Im not saying you are dead wrong because I dont really know...

My wing is beat up but I feel its the real McCoy.

Im happy wth it. Unless you have some solid proof that its fake, Im gonna go for it being the real deal.

Kropotkin and Patrick are confident about theirs.

Im confident about mine.

 

Rooster



#15 Blacksmith

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:26 AM

Rooster - do you have other photos of known original wings with casting quality like yours?

#16 rooster77

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:54 AM

I have the one on Bobs site, Patrick and Kropotkin have one. And 1 is for sale on the web. Not ebay.

What makes you think its cast?

Doesnt look cast to me. I dont see any typical sign of casting.

I'd really be interested if someone can prove its fake, because I can return it if its not the real deal.

Does not look cast  to me at all. I dont have it in hand yet, but Im pretty confident its a die struck wing.


Edited by rooster77, 14 March 2019 - 07:59 AM.


#17 rooster77

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:24 AM

I'l repost Patricks first paragraph on the TO he picked up...

 

Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:07 AM

The TO wing is one that I have been missing out of my collection for some time, but one in which I never really spent much time seeking out.  There just seemed so many fakes that it just never really caught on fire.

 

The forum has had a number of threads on IDing good NS Meyers wings. Then MTMAN posted some really AWESOME threads about some rare wings (like his thread on the military aviator wings http://www.usmilitar...ot-rating-wing/ and his observation about the "1930's balloon observer conundrum" http://www.usmilitar...ing-for-review/) that really started me thinking about my own wing collecting biases.

 

I think many collectors' interests begin to diverge and focus, and for the last few years, I found myself searching more for WWI bullion wings than anything from WWII.  I tended to dismiss NS Meyer wings as mundane (at least to me) and found that I was becoming sloppy in not looking more carefully at these types of wings when the were available. I try to keep my mind open on the forum and certainly mtman opened up my thoughts on how I was likely missing some gems (both in my own collection and things that were available for purchase).

 

One day recently, I found this wing on the internet and began to compare it to some other wings.  As usual, the first three things I do when I want to do some research is (1) search Bob's site for comparable wings (and look through my various books on wings), (2) search the forum for previous discussions (3) tap into my "brain trust" (you guys know who you are!). Eventually, I came to the conclusion that this was a good wing and one that I wanted to add to my collection. The thing is, if mtman hadn't been making me rethink some of my biases, I may have just moved over this wing.  I didn't get it at a great price, but I did add a TO wing to my collection! 

 

Again, a hat tip to Bob's site.  Those of you who don't spend your time using his webpage as a great reference source are missing out!

http://www.ww2wings....er</span>.shtml

 

 

I personally did my research too and thought this wing a keeper.

I trust that Patrick wouldnt willy nilly pick up a TO Wing and post it here without being real confident it was

the real thing.

Please feel free to point out the major differences between the wing I posted, Kropotkins wing and Patricks wing as well as the wing on

Bob Schwartz site which most of us use as a wing bible.

My wing is filthy, a bit more beat up than the other examples... The photo is kind of dark,

but I feel my TO is not a fake.

Please prove to me otherwise.

My point being is that if mine is fake... does that mean all the other examples shown here, 4 total...

are fakes???

Please point out to me the major differences between my TO and the other examples.

 

Rooster

 

Rooster.


Edited by rooster77, 14 March 2019 - 08:28 AM.


#18 rooster77

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:20 AM

Rustywings…. I hope I'm not coming off all upset and defensive…. lol prob am….

Il take your advice and keep checking on this. I certainly am a novice.

Ive been burned before… It just seems to match the others.. Il wait until I get them so I can really check them.

Thank you.

 

Rooster



#19 Kropotkin

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:24 AM

Just had a look at mine. If it is a fake I’d have to applaud the faker for their art. Comes in at 3 1/8”, very much appears to be die-struck, not cast, and has the short pins soldered on to the wing, commensurate with the age they purport to be.

I am far from being an advanced collector and the likes of Rustywings and Patrick have forgotten more about wing collecting than I know, I suspect, so my word’s not worth much in comparison but it certainly looks the part to me.


#20 LuftStalg1

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:34 AM

Based on the photos posted it looks die struck to me as well.  Some nice sharp edges you just don't get in castings.



#21 LuftStalg1

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:51 AM

Some easy to spot and typical die struck flaws.

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#22 Kropotkin

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:08 AM

Mine also seems to have the remains of frosting on the centre device and the low points of the wings that, to my eye, seems to be naturally worn away.

#23 rooster77

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:18 AM

I see what Russ is saying. He is not knocking this particular badge as being fake. He thinks this pattern in general,

this type of wing is a repro. Def Die struck but so are other fakes..

A real conundrum………… 

Rusty Wings… Does that include the badge on Bobs site?

 

Rooster


Edited by rooster77, 14 March 2019 - 10:20 AM.


#24 pfrost

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:37 AM

To be fair, Patrick does frequently do things "willy nilly!"  LOL :lol:  And that sometimes shows up in his posts.  I am not an "expert" in any sense of the word, and there are many people on this thread who teach ME things about wings that I didn't know or wasn't aware of.

 

At first glance this wing seemed good to me, but that ALWAYS includes the caveats that my impressions are based on what I can see on line.  People who have the wing in hand have a better look at it and can tell things that the photos don't always provide.

 

The back of my wings are very smooth.  The back of these wings look kind of bumpy (see arrow).  I'm not sure if that is an optical illusion or actually signs of casting.  Sometimes it can be very  hard to tell one from the other without having it in hand and in good lighting.

 

 

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#25 rooster77

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 12:49 PM

I see. Until I have it in hand I just need to chill out. I thought a bomber wing I bought was coated in white paint due to the photos. lol It was not.

Also it could be that Patricks and Kropotkins are real and mine is a fake? Out of all the samples here, mine appears worse for wear than the others..

I also see some differences in mine from the 3 others… But, I need to see it top down and not from the angle that the photo was taken.

The wing is so tarnished and there is a lot of gunk in the channel around the shield on the back side. Combined with the angle and lighting...

This is part of the fun of collecting wings. I may have gotten burned… But I can return it if need be.

No pain no gain….  lol

I'l post some better pics when I get it.

Thank you all for the help!

 

Rooster




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