hbtcoveralls Posted March 10, 2019 Share #26 Posted March 10, 2019 I worked at a genuine army navy surplus store (The great war Store, 1019 Hamilton Street, Allentown PA) during and for a while after high school back in the 1980s. Even then the surplus business was changing rapidly and not in a good way. Many people don't know that most Army Navy stores existed through wholesalers just like any other retail business and only a few used to go to auctions etc We used to still be able to order bales of Ike Jackets and horse blanket coats from the wholesalers but then they all started to go out of business themselves The few who really were left were outlets like Sturm, who imported European and mainly German Bundeswehr surplus, and Rothco who sold knockoffs and camping gear. Hard to watch an industry die, but even then we had a sense that the "golden age" had passed. Tom Bowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share #27 Posted March 11, 2019 Some great reporting here guys ! Owen Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capa Posted March 11, 2019 Share #28 Posted March 11, 2019 Interesting thread and I am old enough to have lived through the heyday which I would consider the 1970s. Then there was plenty of WWII things, but also Vietnam as well. The author of the article didn't include the fiasco and controversy regarding Government Liquidators. As others have pointed out here, it's that much harder now that it was just a few years ago to purchase any used gear from government sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1canpara Posted March 11, 2019 Share #29 Posted March 11, 2019 Theres still a very cool surplus store in Seattle, but like most over the years they have shifted from primarily army surplus to current manufacturers of military-style clothing and camping equipment but they still have a lot of VN and 70s-80s field gear and smalls. They also have a wall of helmets and headgear that are rare and unique, and other WWII pieces that are only for display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Apathy Posted March 12, 2019 Share #30 Posted March 12, 2019 . One of my favourite surplus stores had a really nice owner, he would meet me Sunday mornings and locked me in the place alone so I could search every part of the building and stack my finds up for when he returned at lunchtime and we worked out the prices. it was many years later when I tried to phone him to let him know that I was sending him a copy of my book that I learnt that he was a WWII German prisoner of war that never went home, married a local woman and started a surplus store business. I wish I could have learnt all his history while he was still alive. lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelle Posted April 11, 2023 Share #31 Posted April 11, 2023 There are a couple military surplus stores near me. Someone was complaining about SJWs not liking confederate flags (by way, it’s amusing to me how many people who want those flags don’t know what the three official confederate flag actually look like…). Well, the military surplus that carries those flags is also the one that posted a picture of a kid with a gun too big for him to get the butt on his shoulder, with his finger on the trigger. My dad taught me that rule #1 is always treat a gun as if it’s loaded, and #2 was finger on the trigger only when you’re ready to fire. Posing for pics was no exception. He was hardcore about safety and said that the way to show respect for the power you hold is to be safe with it. So it’s not cute when a kid isn’t being taught gun safety, and even less cure when a picture of this fact is proudly posted. If I have to put up with America having more guns per capita than anywhere else in the world, then I’m not going to put up with failing to teach gun safety. No one should be okay with something like that. I don’t know if the other store would support that pic, but I can tell you that the one that has it up is the one that won’t get my money. In this area, there are a lot of back-to-nature hippie sorts who’d devour a lot of the gear in surplus stores so they can go commune with nature for a month or two each summer, and it’s not a good idea to make the people in the area who are most likely to use your stuff feel unwelcome and hated, especially when the stores are located in the one and only state to have ever had racial exclusion laws. As in, Black people weren’t even legally allowed to pass through Oregon, and that was after the Civil War was over. If the fewer and fewer stores that still exist want to stay around in any capacity, whether it’s selling old stock they can find or selling new stuff, they’re going to have to evolve with the times and give people a reason to go the surplus stores instead of going over to Big 5 or Dicks. Some of you talked about surplus stores being this awe-inspiring experience, and that influenced you wanting to go there instead of anywhere else, right? Well, when there are other stores that are more conveniently located thar won’t make you feel like they don’t want you there, then it’s not a good idea to ignore that the flags and such make it a negative experience for many more, and those buyers have options. You don’t have to like it, but ignoring it is bad for business. Which is more important: Displaying those modern made-in-China flags ‘cause ain’t no one gonna tell you what to do and then the stores all close due to a lack of business, or doing what’s needed to keep the doors open, and so stick those folded flags on a shelf so people can focus on the actual surplus gear? These stores are making themselves obsolete by refusing to evolve. That’s a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted April 12, 2023 Share #32 Posted April 12, 2023 14 hours ago, Noelle said: These stores are making themselves obsolete by refusing to evolve. That’s a fact. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linedoggie Posted April 12, 2023 Share #33 Posted April 12, 2023 Pass Kaufmanns every day I go to work, still has the little cannons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelle Posted April 12, 2023 Share #34 Posted April 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Brig said: Source? Why do you think so many have little enough business to stay open? Businesses that don’t evolve go under. Doesn’t matter the type of business. Why do you think people go to Big Five and Dicks when they cost more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted April 12, 2023 Share #35 Posted April 12, 2023 17 minutes ago, Noelle said: Why do you think so many have little enough business to stay open? Businesses that don’t evolve go under. Doesn’t matter the type of business. Why do you think people go to Big Five and Dicks when they cost more? They're not remotely the same type of business. One is new manufactured retail, one is secondhand government surplus not otherwise widely available to the civilian market. The business models, competitive landscape, and effects of the Internet vary wildly between those two types of industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted April 12, 2023 Share #36 Posted April 12, 2023 27 minutes ago, Noelle said: Why do you think so many have little enough business to stay open? Businesses that don’t evolve go under. Doesn’t matter the type of business. Why do you think people go to Big Five and Dicks when they cost more? Heres a brief history for you of surplus in America. https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/military/rise-fall-army-surplus-store/ Old time surplus stores were really special. No denying that. Now? If you can find one. They are not like the old ones. WW2 Korea and vietnam created vast Tons of gear. Im not sure exactly how long it took surplus stores to run out of the stuff from WW2? Prob I would say into the Late 70's early 80's ??? I remember a Surplus store on Van Buren street in the loop in Chicago had racks of WW2 Trench coats etc and that was the early 1980's. But the stuff is mostly gone now. 80 years. Not enough gear was produced in modern times to match the quantities of things produced 80 years ago. So the stores are few and far between. And some that call themselves surplus really arent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelle Posted April 12, 2023 Share #37 Posted April 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, Brig said: They're not remotely the same type of business. One is new manufactured retail, one is secondhand government surplus not otherwise widely available to the civilian market. The business models, competitive landscape, and effects of the Internet vary wildly between those two types of industries. As I said, it doesn’t matter the type of business. Failing to evolve will drive a business under. I had a business, and rather than evolve to the trends in what my clientele wanted, I decided it would be better to close up. I didn’t want to hate doing what I’d loved doing. So I chose to close. No business or industry is immune. When I was a kid, we got a lot of the gear we used for camping from the army surplus. A lot of the gear there is great for that. Doesn’t matter what’s new or used so much. In fact, a lot of younger people prefer to buy used for both environmental reasons and because of lower cost. (It doesn’t hurt that anything seen as vintage is very trendy right now.) So Big Five and Dicks being all new stuff (though Big Five also sells used) isn’t really a perk, especially at a higher price than you’d pay for more durability at a surplus. Surplus stores could revamp and make a comeback, but they’ve chosen not to. I seriously doubt they want to risk making their long-time customers upset over changes as simple as not displaying the confederate flag (see the accusation about SJWs not liking that flag or the Nazi flag being displayed), even if it means that they’re going to end up losing enough business that they will have to close too. That’s a choice they’re making. It’s a shame that’s what they’re choosing to do (I’d prefer to see more small local businesses than yet another Big Five selling the same low-quality made-in-China crap), but in a capitalist society, you either cater to the groups with the most money, or you’re going to go under. I suspect that, at this point, a lot of surplus store owners are operating them as a hobby, and so would rather go under than to take down the symbols they enjoy having hang around them . That’s their valid choice. It’s also a valid choice for more people to take their money elsewhere to avoid those things. That’s how business works. It’s literally part of business 101, whether we like it or not (speaking from experience as a former business-owner who decided to go under). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelle Posted April 12, 2023 Share #38 Posted April 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, The Rooster said: Heres a brief history for you of surplus in America. https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/military/rise-fall-army-surplus-store/ Old time surplus stores were really special. No denying that. Now? If you can find one. They are not like the old ones. WW2 Korea and vietnam created vast Tons of gear. Im not sure exactly how long it took surplus stores to run out of the stuff from WW2? Prob I would say into the Late 70's early 80's ??? I remember a Surplus store on Van Buren street in the loop in Chicago had racks of WW2 Trench coats etc and that was the early 1980's. But the stuff is mostly gone now. 80 years. Not enough gear was produced in modern times to match the quantities of things produced 80 years ago. So the stores are few and far between. And some that call themselves surplus really arent. No, a lot of them aren’t true surplus stores, but many do still deal a lot in vintage used goods that are better quality than the mass-produced crap the big chains sell. There is a market for that stuff, and used is outright trendy. But people who aren’t comfortable in a store aren’t going to go there, and as the older clientele drop off, those older clientele won’t be replaced in high enough numbers. The two surpluses in my local area do have a lot of military stuff. I don’t know how they’re so stocked. Going by the pics both they and reviewers post, it looks like mostly Vietnam through Desert Storm. When I was a kid, getting camping gear always meant a trip to the surplus shop, and I didn’t think twice of it, but have fond memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normaninvasion Posted April 12, 2023 Share #39 Posted April 12, 2023 13 hours ago, The Rooster said: Heres a brief history for you of surplus in America. https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/military/rise-fall-army-surplus-store/ Old time surplus stores were really special. No denying that. Now? If you can find one. They are not like the old ones. WW2 Korea and vietnam created vast Tons of gear. Im not sure exactly how long it took surplus stores to run out of the stuff from WW2? Prob I would say into the Late 70's early 80's ??? I remember a Surplus store on Van Buren street in the loop in Chicago had racks of WW2 Trench coats etc and that was the early 1980's. But the stuff is mostly gone now. 80 years. Not enough gear was produced in modern times to match the quantities of things produced 80 years ago. So the stores are few and far between. And some that call themselves surplus really arent. I remenber, atleast in 85-86, our local had a ton of ww2 era field gear, blankets, canteens, mess kits, ammo/med pouches, musette bags, and M1 helmets. Tons of Navy flat caps , assorted headgear. This was split half half with Nam era gear that looked brand new in comparison. This is where I would dead stock Od ripstop fatigues. Patches were kept in boxes on the counter. Collectible headgear behind the counter and on shelves below ceiling. The back of the store had a marine engine repairshop, our town being on the water, hence the aboundance of Navy gear. Use to get pine tar there for my baseball bats. Great times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Jerry Posted April 13, 2023 Share #40 Posted April 13, 2023 At our shop we often get lumped in with the "surplus store" moniker. (admittedly what was "surplus" even 20 years ago is now "collectible" ) We do have a "surplus area" in the back area, with the bags/tents/boots/cots/etc. that we get in, but we are even rethinking that as a best use of floor space. Thankfully our "military collectible" areas of the store provide what we need to keep the lights on. I think most real surplus stores closed up due to lack of incoming inventory at decent wholesale prices, where they could buy in bulk and sell for far less than the "new" market items. So with little to none "government" inventory coming in, they had to switch to the "mil-spec" kind of stuff, and go with the "camping and boots" route to stay afloat - but it is hard to remain competitive in this world of online sales and virtually instant amazonian delivery, when you are all selling the same products. Support your local stores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted April 13, 2023 Share #41 Posted April 13, 2023 On 4/12/2023 at 12:08 AM, Noelle said: As I said, it doesn’t matter the type of business. Failing to evolve will drive a business under. I had a business, and rather than evolve to the trends in what my clientele wanted, I decided it would be better to close up. I didn’t want to hate doing what I’d loved doing. So I chose to close. No business or industry is immune. When I was a kid, we got a lot of the gear we used for camping from the army surplus. A lot of the gear there is great for that. Doesn’t matter what’s new or used so much. In fact, a lot of younger people prefer to buy used for both environmental reasons and because of lower cost. (It doesn’t hurt that anything seen as vintage is very trendy right now.) So Big Five and Dicks being all new stuff (though Big Five also sells used) isn’t really a perk, especially at a higher price than you’d pay for more durability at a surplus. Surplus stores could revamp and make a comeback, but they’ve chosen not to. I seriously doubt they want to risk making their long-time customers upset over changes as simple as not displaying the confederate flag (see the accusation about SJWs not liking that flag or the Nazi flag being displayed), even if it means that they’re going to end up losing enough business that they will have to close too. That’s a choice they’re making. It’s a shame that’s what they’re choosing to do (I’d prefer to see more small local businesses than yet another Big Five selling the same low-quality made-in-China crap), but in a capitalist society, you either cater to the groups with the most money, or you’re going to go under. I suspect that, at this point, a lot of surplus store owners are operating them as a hobby, and so would rather go under than to take down the symbols they enjoy having hang around them . That’s their valid choice. It’s also a valid choice for more people to take their money elsewhere to avoid those things. That’s how business works. It’s literally part of business 101, whether we like it or not (speaking from experience as a former business-owner who decided to go under). I also am a former business owner who's working on a business degree Nobody is arguing that businesses need to evolve to survive. But without some type of quantitative data or qualitative outside of your own opinion, where that evolution needs to occur is merely your personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake36bravo Posted April 13, 2023 Share #42 Posted April 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Mr.Jerry said: At our shop we often get lumped in with the "surplus store" moniker. (admittedly what was "surplus" even 20 years ago is now "collectible" ) We do have a "surplus area" in the back area, with the bags/tents/boots/cots/etc. that we get in, but we are even rethinking that as a best use of floor space. Thankfully our "military collectible" areas of the store provide what we need to keep the lights on. I think most real surplus stores closed up due to lack of incoming inventory at decent wholesale prices, where they could buy in bulk and sell for far less than the "new" market items. So with little to none "government" inventory coming in, they had to switch to the "mil-spec" kind of stuff, and go with the "camping and boots" route to stay afloat - but it is hard to remain competitive in this world of online sales and virtually instant amazonian delivery, when you are all selling the same products. Support your local stores! I've seen your videos. I think they've got it wrong. More like the local looney bin ya bunch of crazies! JK of course. Im a guy that appreciates the off the cuff humor from you and Mark and also the fact that nothing seems to fit your head! You are right. Support your local stores! There are good stores everywhere still. That article is typical of journalism today. You just need to be a prospector and get off your tail to find the sweet spots. If you're ever in Nashville skip Friedmans and all their Chinese made low quality crap and hit Battleground Army Surplus down by the fair grounds. Its a honey hole. Still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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