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2nd Ranger Battalion Class A, Operation Just Cause Vet?


CHASEUSA11B
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Hello everyone,

I picked this up on eBay and wanted to see what you all think.

It was listed in the Vietnam section without much description. The pieces are dated 1980s and the ribbons dont show Vietnam service so thats obviously incorrect.

It has a 2d battalion Ranger scroll as a combat patch and a 199th Infantry Brigade as the current unit.

The ribbons consist of an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal w/arrowhead, Good Conduct Medal, National Defense and Army Service Ribbon.

It has an Expert Rifle Badge and Jump Wings w/ combat jump star but no indication of ever having a Ranger tab.

I checked the pockets and found a correct jump wings oval.

Based on the totality of the insignia it appears to be a class A from an operation Just Cause veteran who made a combat jump with the 2nd Ranger Battalion. What do you all think?

Thanks for any input.

post-6201-0-94714500-1551326135.jpegpost-6201-0-61155900-1551326151.jpeg

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Greetings,

The 199th BDE had a short stint of existence on Ft. Lewis between 1991–1992, which remains the home station of 2/75th RGR Bn (as such, this patches' combo is not as odd as it first may seem). I was stationed at 2D Ranger during Operation Just Cause and unlike Operation Urgent Fury (i.e. Grenada) 2nd Batt did bring a comparatively large contingent of "tabless" Rangers along. I myself had a PVT in my squad who arrived to the unit only three days before we departed and made the combat jump into Rio Hato.

Unfortunately, this individual (in this case, not named Johnson) was later canned from the organization, because he did not successfully graduate Ranger School. My point being, many "tabless" Rangers (combat veteran or otherwise) were relieved for cause (i.e. alcohol related incidents, failure to pass RGR School, & other behavioral/performance issues) and released from the organization for service with the "greater Army's needs." In 2/75, this "release from the unit" was colloquially referred to as being "DXed," which is a shortened form of "Direct Exchanged." When you have a piece of damaged beyond repair equipment (such as a canteen cover's snap), you would visit the post's Central Issue Facility and "direct exchange" the defective item for a serviceable one. This DXing process translates into a sizeable portion of the 75th REGT's losses. Unit's both on and off Ft. Lewis loved to get their hands on DXed Rangers, because even with their faults/issues, they were likely better trained/motivated than any newly assigned personnel they would otherwise receive. This such scenario would/could explain the aforementioned uniform patches' paradigm.

 

In this uniform's case, you have an individual who (assuming this is not some "put together" uniform) served in combat with 2/75 RGR REGT during OJC (at the end of 1989 beginning of 1990) and was (likely) subsequently DXed from the unit between 1991-1992. Perhaps, they failed to graduate Ranger School, received a DUI Traffic's Offense or were simply relieved for cause for their failure to pass a PT test (the possibilities of being DXed are endless, yet the largest margins are RGR School's Failures & charges stemming from Alcohol Related Incidents).

 

In my 28 years of Army service, whenever a viewed an individual wearing a combat Ranger's scroll and no accompanying Ranger Tab, I knew I was about to hear some version of a "hard luck sob story" of how "it wasn't their fault" when I asked what was up with him not having a Ranger Tab. No disrespect meant to this uniform's associated service member, but it is what it is.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

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The 3d Battalion, 47th Infantry was assigned to the 199th Infantry Brigade from Feb 1991 to Jan 1994. This is from the US Army Center of Military History Lineage and Honors page for the 47th Infantry.

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Greetings,

 

The 199th BDE had a short stint of existence on Ft. Lewis between 1991–1992, which remains the home station of 2/75th RGR Bn (as such, this patches' combo is not as odd as it first may seem). I was stationed at 2D Ranger during Operation Just Cause and unlike Operation Urgent Fury (i.e. Grenada) 2nd Batt did bring a comparatively large contingent of "tabless" Rangers along. I myself had a PVT in my squad who arrived to the unit only three days before we departed and made the combat jump into Rio Hato.

 

Unfortunately, this individual (in this case, not named Johnson) was later canned from the organization, because he did not successfully graduate Ranger School. My point being, many "tabless" Rangers (combat veteran or otherwise) were relieved for cause (i.e. alcohol related incidents, failure to pass RGR School, & other behavioral/performance issues) and released from the organization for service with the "greater Army's needs." In 2/75, this "release from the unit" was colloquially referred to as being "DXed," which is a shortened form of "Direct Exchanged." When you have a piece of damaged beyond repair equipment (such as a canteen cover's snap), you would visit the post's Central Issue Facility and "direct exchange" the defective item for a serviceable one. This DXing process translates into a sizeable portion of the 75th REGT's losses. Unit's both on and off Ft. Lewis loved to get their hands on DXed Rangers, because even with their faults/issues, they were likely better trained/motivated than any newly assigned personnel they would otherwise receive. This such scenario would/could explain the aforementioned uniform patches' paradigm.

 

In this uniform's case, you have an individual who (assuming this is not some "put together" uniform) served in combat with 2/75 RGR REGT during OJC (at the end of 1989 beginning of 1990) and was (likely) subsequently DXed from the unit between 1991-1992. Perhaps, they failed to graduate Ranger School, received a DUI Traffic's Offense or were simply relieved for cause for their failure to pass a PT test (the possibilities of being DXed are endless, yet the largest margins are RGR School's Failures & charges stemming from Alcohol Related Incidents).

 

In my 28 years of Army service, whenever a viewed an individual wearing a combat Ranger's scroll and no accompanying Ranger Tab, I knew I was about to hear some version of a "hard luck sob story" of how "it wasn't their fault" when I asked what was up with him not having a Ranger Tab. No disrespect meant to this uniform's associated service member, but it is what it is.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

 

 

Very interesting.

 

If it is a put together someone really did their research and knew to add the arrowhead the AFEM, star to the parachute badge, and right 2nd/75th oval..

I like it. I hope it proves to be good.

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Thank you for the comments

Great insight militariaone, I appreciate the knowledge from your experience.

 

To me it seems right, its got a couple problems but odd for a put together. Itd be nice to track down a jump manifest but without a positive ID I think its impossible to say for sure.

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My only question would be how he got to SPC without a tab.

 

I was at Fort Lewis at this time, assigned to the 201st MI Brigade. I went through PLDC with a tabbed Ranger named Frank Osinski - very squared away guy!

 

My understanding was that the career path in the Ranger battalions at that time went like this:

Private goes through Infantry OSUT, then jump school Volunteers for Ranger duty and gets assigned to RIP (ranger indoctrination program.) I think RIP was 3 weeks long. If he satisfactorily passes RIP, he is assigned to a Ranger battalion. Usually he is a PV2 or PFC by this time.

 

If he shows himself to be squared away, then within 2 years he is slotted for Ranger school, by which time he is a PFC. If he passes he is promoted to SPC/E-4 and slotted for PLDC so he can be promoted to E-5.

 

So this coat appears to have belonged to someone who didn't make it through Ranger school but still got promoted to SPC.

 

I could see it being a possibility, especially if he had some college, he might have come in as a PFC and gotten his E-4 right out of jump school and then been assigned to the Ranger battalion. Another possibility: He was slotted for Ranger school and got sent to Panama instead, and got his E-4 there since he was not available to attend ranger school (E-4 is supposed to be more or less automatic at 24 months of service.)

 

The 199th patch tells me that some time after Panama he either decided he no longer wanted to "live a life of sex and danger" (as the running cadence goes) or for whatever reason the Rangers decided they didn't want him anymore and kicked him out to a conventional unit on the same post.

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^^^^ Having said the above, the guy had a combat jump star and a CIB which is more than I'll ever have so I'll give him respect for that alone.

 

All in all there is nothing that jumps out as being implausible about the coat. Would be nice to know the story, there can't be that many 2nd battalion Panama vets out there so even with a fairly common name I would think it would be possible to get some info on the soldier.

 

As far as the overseas cap, probably what he wore in between graduating jump school and finishing RIP. Upon completion of RIP the soldier would have been awarded the black beret of the Rangers.

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^^^^ Having said the above, the guy had a combat jump star and a CIB which is more than I'll ever have so I'll give him respect for that alone.

 

All in all there is nothing that jumps out as being implausible about the coat. Would be nice to know the story, there can't be that many 2nd battalion Panama vets out there so even with a fairly common name I would think it would be possible to get some info on the soldier.

 

As far as the overseas cap, probably what he wore in between graduating jump school and finishing RIP. Upon completion of RIP the soldier would have been awarded the black beret of the Rangers.

 

 

But...that style cap qual badge hasn't been worn since WW2.

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militariaone

 

 

But...that style cap qual badge hasn't been worn since WW2.

 

Yes, in all frankness, that's the only (truly) odd thing in this grouping.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

 

P.S. As an aside, there were a number of tabbed Rangers who were away in various military schools, sick/injured or outprocessing to their next assignments when OJC went down. As such, you had cases of PVT-2s/PFCs returning with CIBs, Jump Stars, combat scrolls and tabbed out NCOs who "missed the show" having to bite their tongues while in any troop's formation.

 

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Fender Rhodes

My only question would be how he got to SPC without a tab.

 

He probably got promoted to SPC after leaving 2nd Batt.

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CHASEUSA11B

post-6201-0-77678200-1551495374_thumb.jpeg

 

Thank you for the interest gentlemen, its interesting to be sure.

 

As for the rank I dont think its a stretch st all that he made Spc after leaving the battalion. Showing up to a line unit with a combat patch and mustard stain would make you stand out. That is of course if its not put together

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As for the rank I dont think its a stretch st all that he made Spc after leaving the battalion. Showing up to a line unit with a combat patch and mustard stain would make you stand out. That is of course if its not put together

 

I don't think it's a stretch to think he went in as an E-3 or E-4. I knew lots of guys in the 80s who had prior ROTC, CAP, or college experience that qualified them to enter service as an E-3 or E-4. One of my best friends had a bachelors degree and was a SPC on his first day in the army (he eventually became a warrant officer).

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Totally random, but I went through Navy OCS with a Just Cause veteran. He was allowed to wear basic jump wings on his uniform (even though he was rated master, but the Navy doesn't recognize those) and his AFEM with invasion arrowhead. That was an odd enough combo to where he got a lot of attention from our drill instructors, for sure! I never saw his Army insignia until we came back from noon chow one day and he had left his locker unlocked...resulting in a drill instructor "hurricane". His personal items were disbursed around his room as well as our in the passageway for quite a distance. Helping him pick up everything, I was impressed to run across his master jump wings with combat star, CIB, Army unit awards, DIs, etc...none of which he could wear on the Navy uniform but he had brought to OCS for whatever reason.

 

Random story...but as an officer candidate who started out as a collector, I was quite impressed! :D:)

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445th Bomb Group

That garrison cap is actually correct and in fact illustrates a lot of the stupidity/BS that you would find in the battalions in the early 90’s. Even though garrison caps were never worn in the ranger battalions (Black berets only) there was a requirement that they be sewn with the round airborne patch on the left side and displayed during locker inspections in accordance with the ranger standard guide issued to all members of the battalion. As I recall, in 1st BN the garrison caps were sewn with the red parachute and glider patch simply because that was what they carried at Hunter AAF clothing sales. 2nd BN might have used the blue and white parachute patch because clothing sales at Lewis had that one in stock and the 3rd BN guys would have sewn on whatever type Ranger Joes carried in their store. Why sew an obsolete patch on to a cap that by regulation you weren’t allowed to wear? I haven’t got a clue, but asking why would be looking for logic where none exists.

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militariaone

That garrison cap is actually correct and in fact illustrates a lot of the stupidity/BS that you would find in the battalions in the early 90’s. Even though garrison caps were never worn in the ranger battalions (Black berets only) there was a requirement that they be sewn with the round airborne patch on the left side and displayed during locker inspections in accordance with the ranger standard guide issued to all members of the battalion. As I recall, in 1st BN the garrison caps were sewn with the red parachute and glider patch simply because that was what they carried at Hunter AAF clothing sales. 2nd BN might have used the blue and white parachute patch because clothing sales at Lewis had that one in stock and the 3rd BN guys would have sewn on whatever type Ranger Joes carried in their store. Why sew an obsolete patch on to a cap that by regulation you weren’t allowed to wear? I haven’t got a clue, but asking why would be looking for logic where none exists.

As an enlisted 2/75 RGR REGT's veteran from 1985 to 1991 and again, from 1996 to 1999, I never viewed or heard of a patched or otherwise; garrison cap being part of a CTA-50's, wall locker's, or in rank's inspection (I can't speak to contemporary 1/75 or 3/75 peculiarities/pedantics).

 

I believe the best explanation (OK, call it an informed theory) for that head scratching's use of a WWII style patch would be a Soldier who has just graduated from Airborne School and is taking home leave before the start of his training at the Ranger Indoctrination Program (perhaps he had a zero week or two, before RIP started) and then, he went home on leave as a "proud paratrooper" sporting this cap. Instead of forking down the money for a Red Beret, which he'd only wear for a very short period, he opted for the (admittedly wrong) patch to be sewn onto his garrison cap, which was already owned (read: free) as part of his initial issue. Off post, at Ranger Joes or US Cav he may have viewed that patch being sold alongside the correct combined variant and made a snap/uniformed decision he wasn't glider qualified so he went with a earlier variant's now novelty patch. Or too, it may have been a relative's patch and he wore it home on leave for the same period within his training's rotation as an "homage to grandpa" again, just a theory.

 

I myself had a week's leave between Airborne School's Graduation and having to report to RIP, while home on leave I traveled there and back with a Red Beret sporting a 75th RGR REGT's flash (with no unit's patch worn on my Class A uniform). When I returned from leave and was about to report to RIP, I was quickly (& thankfully) warned by my peers to "ditch that Red Beret!!!" before the RIP cadre viewed me in it. I did so and the next morning, subsequently observed others reporting in with the same Red Beret's 75th RGR REGT Flash's get up and without the ability/opportunity to warn them in time, they underwent a "religious experience" via the RIP cadre's noticeably angry nay, hostile aversion to the not-so-coveted Red Beret. In August, Fort Benning, Georgia, is rather hot and humid place for (ahem) so called "corrective training" to occur.

 

In terms of 2/75 RGR's specific uniform/equipage inspections. About the only continuing level of questionable ever-inspectable related oddness I observed was a reoccurring fascination of fetish-like proportions were bi-annual inspections, which (amongst other things) involved ensuring the unit's members possessed an appropriately patched/name taped M-65 BDU Field Jacket. A uniform component, which was never (EVER!) worn (except, for these type of "show-down" inspections). The unit's reoccurring interest in these M-65s must have had to do with Rangers attending the local NCO Academy, where this was an inspectable item (yet oddly, the then Black Ranger's Beret seamlessly replaced the garrison cap for the NCO Academy's wall locker's displays)

 

As for cold weather's attire, when appropriate, polypropylene shirts, sleeping shirts, or field jacket's liners with outer Gortex Jackets (or more usual, just Gortex Jackets) were worn, but never (EVER!) the M-65 Field Jacket....as (I assumed) that's what the "dirty & nasty" gents down the street wore :-) Yet, there was an expectation, that you zealously maintained an M-65 ready and correctly patched for wear. The M-65 Field Jacket was about the only clothing item, which I recall that caused any pause for comment when contemporarily contemplated by my fellow enlisted masses..... Oh the horror!

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

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That's a great post! I had to laugh, I also had 2 BDU M65s that were never worn during active duty. In fact, one is now 29 years old and has never been laundered because it's never been dirty.

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In terms of 2/75 RGR's specific uniform/equipage inspections. About the only continuing level of questionable ever-inspectable related oddness I observed was a reoccurring fascination of fetish-like proportions were bi-annual inspections, which (amongst other things) involved ensuring the unit's members possessed an appropriately patched/name taped M-65 BDU Field Jacket. A uniform component, which was never (EVER!) worn (except, for these type of "show-down" inspections). The unit's reoccurring interest in these M-65s must have had to do with Rangers attending the local NCO Academy, where this was an inspectable item (yet oddly, the then Black Ranger's Beret seamlessly replaced the garrison cap for the NCO Academy's wall locker's displays)

 

As for cold weather's attire, when appropriate, polypropylene shirts, sleeping shirts, or field jacket's liners with outer Gortex Jackets (or more usual, just Gortex Jackets) were worn, but never (EVER!) the M-65 Field Jacket....as (I assumed) that's what the "dirty & nasty" gents down the street wore :-) Yet, there was an expectation, that you zealously maintained an M-65 ready and correctly patched for wear. The M-65 Field Jacket was about the only clothing item, which I recall that caused any pause for comment when contemporarily contemplated by my fellow enlisted masses..... Oh the horror!

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

 

Fort Lewis's climate was about the worst one possible for the M65 anyway. Cold/wet weather would just make that cotton M65 soak up water like a sponge. It was like wearing a wet towel around. When I was at the 201st MI Brigade we were not issued Goretex (this would have been 1989 - 90) so the cheap Army Wet Weather jacket was the norm but anybody who went over to Korea usually bought a "Kimchi Goretex" from one of the local shops.

 

By Summer of 1990 I had switched over to 3rd Bn, 1st SFG(A) as a support guy (intelligence) and was issued the coveted Goretex. I don't think I ever wore an M65 field jacket after that again.

 

By the time I got to Korea (2nd ID Headquarters) in 1991, 2nd ID was issuing Goretex to everybody.

 

I still have my old Goretex jacket, it sits in the back of my truck as an emergency raincoat. Wife has used it on plenty of occasions when she forgot to bring a jacket. It's still in great shape despite being 25+ years old.

 

Hey, I've got to ask, did you know Frank Osinski? I don't know what company he was in but he was in 2/75 when I went through PLDC in October-November of 1989 just before Panama.

 

Oh, one other question, were you involved in "The Battle of Hilltop?" in Downtown Tacoma? ;)

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