Here's a strange one - a duplicate medal for a GWOT KIA?

[Dave]

I was surfing eBay this morning (as I typically do...hourly...LOL) and this medal popped up. I'll admit, Lincoln D. Hollinsaid is an unusual name and what struck me as nothing short of strange...and kind of creepy...is that I interviewed Lincoln's parents for my book on posthumous Purple Hearts. They are fantastic people and they have turned Lincoln's bedroom into a very tasteful memorial to remember him and his sacrifice in Iraq. I can guarantee that they haven't parted with his medals...so it seems really odd that another officially engraved medal to him is floating around out there. This one doesn't appear to be engraved in error, as it's identical to the Army Commendation that was awarded to him posthumously that I photographed. (It is slightly different enough to where I know it's not the exact same medal though...) Lincoln wasn't married and from my experience, the posthumous sets of medals given to other family members who were not the official NOK are not engraved (I've seen this about ten times now for GWOT casualties).

 

Really kind of interesting. If I saw this floating around out there at a show and I didn't know that his parents still had all of his medals, I'd excitedly add it to my collection. But my question now is...why is there a second officially engraved medal floating around out there to him? And how many other medals to casualties, like Lincoln, are out there...that were never actually given to the family.

 

Something to keep in mind...caveat emptor on currently awarded medals!

[Dave]

Here's the photo of the one I took that is still in the possession of his parents...

[Ray42]

That is very weird, at first on seeing that I assumed the first one must have been a fake but if you look at the spacing of the letters they match up almost perfect and I doubt anyone could copy it so well. Was that picture used in your book?

[LuftStalg1]

Engravers making dup's for later profit, personal collection, display????

[Dave]

That is very weird, at first on seeing that I assumed the first one must have been a fake but if you look at the spacing of the letters they match up almost perfect and I doubt anyone could copy it so well. Was that picture used in your book?

 

 

The one in the auction is undoubtedly official government engraving. The photo I took for my book hasn't been published yet...this thread is actually the first time it's ever been seen in public.

[Pegasus6]

Dave,

 

I bet a question to the seller may provide some additional clarity on this one. There could be a few reasons. I would not suspect foul play off the top of the bat due to the fact the seller isnt advertising the SM was KIA in OIF... And not to de-value the ARCOM... but the military across the Active Duty Component as well as reserve component is rather fickle, you see them given away like candy in some organizations within the components, and you see them guarded like the holy grail in others. As you know the military doesnt do engraving for ARCOMs or most medals in general unless it is for presentation such as the one was to his family as this costs money. As far as engraving "" Who does the government contract for "" official engraving / near and around Dover? / whom handles the presentation/organization. Most engraving is machine done so, I find the idea of it being commercially done as easy as government (again I don't know* for sure how we as in the DoD/HQDA gets them). I also have been fortunate/unfortunate depending on how you look at it to have been assigned as a CNO to be more intimate with a family in this time or ask these types of questions during the training. It may be that there were sets made for multiple family members... Parents / Dependent? I also wondered about the finnish, but these both have the standard government not staybright finish.

 

VR

Peg6

[Pegasus6]

I re-read again your post, and yea Im still miffed...

[Brig]

Possibly to another soldier with the same name?

[Dave]

Some great questions Peg6...from what I know, the Purple Hearts are done with a laser engraver at Dover by Mortuary Affairs. I don't know if they've done this from the start, however, as the current style with the rank and last name only started appearing around 2010 and Lincoln was KIA in 2003. I did attempt to get a tour of the facility to discuss how the medals are engraved and at first, they seemed open to the idea. Then...silence on the net and they never responded to any of my queries after that. Really strange (maybe I should try again now that I'm back on active duty...perhaps a bit more "street cred"...)

 

Anyway, this kind of sans serif engraving is done in Philadelphia, but it's not an exact match for what I've seen from early GWOT casualties. So where the engraving was done...and on medals other than the Purple Heart, is still kind of a mystery that needs to be answered.

 

The idea of the additional sets for the parents and/or dependents isn't off base at all. In fact, modern awards are really frustrating as everyone receives an award. For example, in a presentation of Purple Hearts to a Ft Hood victim, the parents, divorced, received a Purple Heart and award document, the member's spouse received another, and then his adult children also received Purple Hearts and documents. In total, six were presented, all framed with the document and a Purple Heart medal. Were any of the Purple Hearts engraved? No idea...and it was well beyond my ability to track them all down, have them open up the frames and check the reverse of the medals.

 

What I have seen so far is that families who are not the immediate NOK receive a set of awards that are unengraved. This includes in one case a divorced spouse who was still listed as the casualty's NOK, even though his parents had more involvement than the spouse did. In this case, the engraved medals went to the spouse and an unengraved set, with full, original, signed award certificates, was given to the parents. I've seen this multiple times over now.

 

For Lincoln, he never married and had no significant other, so his parents received his set of engraved medals. They were on display in his room, and they were the original and only medals given to them following his death (all part of the questions I ask during the interview...)

 

So strange...just when you think you know how the system works, a curve ball gets thrown in the mix!!!

[Dave]

Possibly to another soldier with the same name?

 

I thought about that too...but he's got an odd name, which made his parents fairly easy to contact for my interview (and ironically, they turned out to be "country neighbors" of my parents...strange, small world!)

[Pegasus6]

 

I thought about that too...but he's got an odd name, which made his parents fairly easy to contact for my interview (and ironically, they turned out to be "country neighbors" of my parents...strange, small world!)

 

Dave,

 

Good information, yea always the curveballs. Did you message the seller? I dont know that we may get better information then going from there specifically. It is truly a small world sometimes...

 

Regards to family for more info, which I would usually pursue if not for the circumstances, I don't think for additional information for our conjecture would provide much more information at this point other then upsetting them and or adding a mystery that they would not need...

 

Curious to see what the seller or any other of our forum members/current SMs and Vets may be able to provide.

 

VR

Peg6

[derrbrad]

I participated in 3 active duty funerals while stationed at Ft Polk from 2004-2011. At each one they literally had a tray of medals to present to the next of kin. It was what ever was awarded posthumously. I asked the aside to the general officer why so many he replied they were for all family that might have showed up to be presented with a set. I know at least one funeral where there were leftover medals for whatever reason. Maybe someone didn't make it? But I have no idea if they were engraved or even if this is standard throughout the country or just what the region did. Maybe a casualty assistance office at the closest base that provided the funeral team might have more answers.