tarbridge Posted January 20, 2019 Share #26 Posted January 20, 2019 As a rule...I never sell what I buy at a show...at a show.I never flaunt things in folks faces...I don't sell some things on certain venues because of who or where they came...that is decorum. It is like most things we all do, you must instill your own integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share #27 Posted January 20, 2019 I would agree that there is an unwritten rule in the militaria code that suggests that if you score something super cheap at show, it is bad form to turn around and reprice it and immediately put it on your table. Generally accepted practice is to save it for the next show or put it on your website, etc. That's more of a "decorum" issue than ethics....because the passage of time doesn't change anything for practical purposes. The original price was the same. The profit is the same. The only variable is the perception. Personally, most of the time I have better things to worry about. People can do what they want, as long as they are not ripping me off or abusing me, my wife, or my table helper. This is what I was always taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share #28 Posted January 20, 2019 As a rule...I never sell what I buy at a show...at a show.I never flaunt things in folks faces...I don't sell some things on certain venues because of who or where they came...that is decorum. It is like most things we all do, you must instill your own integrity. Thats pretty much the point of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted January 20, 2019 Share #29 Posted January 20, 2019 So, where between the buy price of $150 and the resale asking price of $3500 would be the "ethical" resale price? How much profit is a seller "permitted" to make before he is judged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share #30 Posted January 20, 2019 Here you go Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted January 21, 2019 Share #31 Posted January 21, 2019 Here is the only comment I will make about this item. If you are going to act like a big time player and price the item as such, at least know what you are selling and don't call it the wrong thing, like the original post. This suit is not windproof / sausage / blood cake / airborne pattern / bullet proof or whatever silly name is being used today. It is a much different pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted January 21, 2019 Share #32 Posted January 21, 2019 I also don't see the issue...it looks like he paid BIN, didn't haggle or undercut the seller. I also don't see it as flaunting it 5 days after, so long as it's in his possession, I'm guessing the eBay seller is not a member here, or even a collector, or the price would have been higher. I don't know the market value on the piece and if $3500 is fair or blatantly overpriced, but that seems beyond the point. While many dealers may practice decorum and not sell something at the same show they bought it, you'd be naive to think that most if not all the steal-of-a-deals aren't bought up by dealers for later resale during setup hours long before the doors open to the general public. There's no way a building full of people who make a living off this are passing on great deals so Joe Blow can pick it up when the doors open. But since Joe Blow doesn't see it, we don't hear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share #33 Posted January 21, 2019 Brig , You are clearly missing the point. But it is interesting to read what your inner thoughts are. Bob I didn't even address your point as I felt it was plainly obvious. owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted January 21, 2019 Share #34 Posted January 21, 2019 Trust me, my inner thoughts are kept inner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share #35 Posted January 21, 2019 Your hostility is plainly obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 21, 2019 Share #36 Posted January 21, 2019 I think Owens definition of "ethics" answers the question. Is it ethical? Based on my "personal" ethics, probably not. But, those are my ethics. Someone elses ethical line may be quite different. So, I think this actually has more to do with the norms and mores' of militaria. And those change based on what group you happen to speak with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted January 21, 2019 Share #37 Posted January 21, 2019 The implications and and ethical perceptions change with the situation. A worldwide internet auction company with untold amounts of members offer a item for sale on a Buy-it-Now...it is not a thing of ethics but a thing of knowledge and happenstance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share #38 Posted January 21, 2019 However the ethics of offering at a high number v purchased price it on a sales platform to the worlds most advanced and in my opinion above board forum members with in 5 days is challenged. Owen Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted January 21, 2019 Share #39 Posted January 21, 2019 However the ethics of offering at a high number v purchased price it on a sales platform to the worlds most advanced and in my opinion above board forum members with in 5 days is challenged. Owen Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sorry O...I don't see it your way..this is not a matter of ethics but a matter of retail.Your contention is 5 days is too soon but maybe if the buyer waited for two months it would make it ethically agreeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share #40 Posted January 21, 2019 Robert I fully respect your opinion 100%. The amount of threads here about EPAY and the crying attached to that are in their hundreds. The amount of threads related to eBay and the sales page are very few. Heres one for the books showing little regard for members and their knowledge. With that I am done. Its off to the bath and ice cream in bed. owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMariner Posted January 21, 2019 Share #41 Posted January 21, 2019 I knew you were stirring the pot once you posted what you did, which Is why I immediately said something to you about! You seem to be that sort of fella from what I have seen from you on the forum! I don't know you or what you do, you seem to be a man of means and maybe that has put you out of touch with the majority here! For most of us here on the forum that buy and sell I would call it less of a business and more of an opportunity for us to fund are hobbies! Had I been in the seller shoes I would have done the same thing! This isn't a case were he coerced a veterans family into selling it for $10 bucks that is a totally separate issue! If everyone operated on your logic you would no longer have Ebay, Antique Stores, Flea Markets, Goodwill, Auctions and many other great places! Why is that because all of those places literally make BILLIONS a year on reselling items! Secondly the sale price of an item is really not your concern, I consider it similar to the salary of an individual! It is only the buyer and sellers business! I figure if I found out your salary and posted it all over the internet you wouldn't be a happy fella! I feel you blatantly were attempting to sabotage the sale, everyone knows that once the value is leaked you will have lots of low ballers and people claiming ,as you are that they are unethical and just in it to make money! Maybe your jealous and just wanted the suit, I dont know you personally or your motives but you defiantly like to start fires here that much I can say! I dont think your a bad guy but maybe have some respect for others trying to build on their hobby! This fires me up because I had it out with another member a few months back for doing much the same thing you are doing to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suwanneetrader Posted January 21, 2019 Share #42 Posted January 21, 2019 During my 60 years of buying and selling I've been on both sides of this. About 1990 I sold a CW era Lemat Perc revolver. I think it was ser #4 and was different from any French or Confederate Lemat I had seen. Many knowledgeable collectors and dealers looked at it. It was decided it was not right. I do not remember what I sold it for but I think it was $1,200.00 (a friend who is on this Forum and used to live in Florida may remember the estate of guns I was helping sell) I sold it to a prominent dealer who sold it to another big dealer who advertised it in a major arms magazine as one of four submitted to the Confederate States for consideration. It was listed at $15,000.00 and I was told it sold. I was disappointed but as I had not talked to that dealer nor the one who sold it to him so they did not deceive me by giving me a low appraisal or opinion. Therefore I had or have no malice. Now on the other side I bought some Tiger Camo from a Used Items, Junk and Collectables Store in same plaza where I eat breakfast many mornings, for $2.00.. I did not know if it was real so I posted on this Forum for info. and a nice and knowledgeable Member identified and offered me $250.00 or $260.00. Which I happily accepted. My thoughts are: I do not lie about an items value so to buy it cheap, but if someone on their own tells me how much they want for their item I buy or don't buy. I have on a few occasions went back to the old person or poor person and given them more money when something brought quite a bit more than I thought it would. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottG Posted January 21, 2019 Share #43 Posted January 21, 2019 I have had a couple of rounds of disagreements with Owen on things in the past, but I believe I have a real world example of what he is trying to say.Actually I have two, one on each end of the spectrum. 1) Several years ago I listed a rare Korean War jet pilots squadron patch on e-Bay and it was sold for a BIN price that was significantly lower than what is was worth. A decent person with morals and strong ethics contacted me and gave me the scoop as they were more than willing to pay the much higher price. Then a second and third as apparently I was way under price. Given the circumstances and the details which at the time was all new info to me, I was a bit pissed, but a deal is a deal or so I thought as I went to bed that night. After sleeping on it I realized that it was mine to do with as I pleased. So, I cancelled the sale and re-sold to a collector or dealer that had some morals and what I felt was a code of ethical behavior. I sold it to him for the original sale price and I felt good about it. Perhaps it was wrong in some eyes to do this on an e-Bay sale, but I don't care. 2) Many years ago at Ron Manions show in Overland Park KS I was a table holder, I drove from Michigan through a massive Midwest snowstorm with my items and those of two friends. One rode with me the other flew down and I was going to drive him to and from the airport and hotels etc... During dealer set up I found an interesting helmet and thought it might be a deal. The helmet "friend" came up and inquired about it as I debated buying it. If it was what I thought it was it would have been a pretty good deal. If not, then it was priced accordingly and I likely would have waited before making an offer until the end of the show. He told me he wasn't sure about it and asked if I was going to buy it? I said I wasn't sure at which point he proceeded to pull out the asking price and pay the dealer while I still held the helmet! I was pissed as it was exactly what I thought it was and this unethical "friend" whom I helped, just screwed me. Needless to say, he did not ride with me and to this day I don't know how he transported his items back to Michigan, nor do I care. Whenever his character is attacked on a forum, and it is often, I am right there to back it up. I think the point Owen is making is that its o.k. to profit from something. We all try to for different reasons. But there is an ethical way to do it and blatantly flaunting your profit isn't it. Karma can also be a factor as this former friend is also one of the well known perpetuaters of one of the most significant German helmet scams in recent history. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted January 21, 2019 Share #44 Posted January 21, 2019 Your reputation is what stays with you, after the transaction is done. Where no laws are broken, and no one injured, people get to decide for themselves what is right. That includes your forum persona - the value you add or subtract through posts you make. People are generally attentive, and over time, will figure out who is who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2019 Share #45 Posted January 21, 2019 1) Several years ago I listed a rare Korean War jet pilots squadron patch on e-Bay and it was sold for a BIN price that was significantly lower than what is was worth. A decent person with morals and strong ethics contacted me and gave me the scoop as they were more than willing to pay the much higher price. Then a second and third as apparently I was way under price. Given the circumstances and the details which at the time was all new info to me, I was a bit pissed, but a deal is a deal or so I thought as I went to bed that night. After sleeping on it I realized that it was mine to do with as I pleased. So, I cancelled the sale and re-sold to a collector or dealer that had some morals and what I felt was a code of ethical behavior. I sold it to him for the original sale price and I felt good about it. Perhaps it was wrong in some eyes to do this on an e-Bay sale, but I don't care. So you're saying you listed an item BIN on eBay, it sold, and after it was sold, you cancelled the sale and sold it to someone else? Just wanting to make sure I read that correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted January 21, 2019 Share #46 Posted January 21, 2019 That is how I read it as well, but didnt comment. Trying to stay judgment free; though will say this: He got in a tizzy because a guy bought a helmet he was hem-hawing on (no transaction), but actually sold something to someone (completed transaction) and reneged, so he could get more money. Basically the back-door eBay deal everybody gripes about. So you're saying you listed an item BIN on eBay, it sold, and after it was sold, you cancelled the sale and sold it to someone else? Just wanting to make sure I read that correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted January 21, 2019 Share #47 Posted January 21, 2019 That is how I read it as well, but didnt comment. Trying to stay judgment free; though will say this: He got in a tizzy because a guy bought a helmet he was hem-hawing on (no transaction), but actually sold something to someone (completed transaction) and reneged, so he could get more money. Basically the back-door eBay deal everybody gripes about. He actually says he sold it for the original sale price...but not to the original buyer... So, I cancelled the sale and re-sold to a collector or dealer that had some morals and what I felt was a code of ethical behavior. I sold it to him for the original sale price and I felt good about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted January 21, 2019 Share #48 Posted January 21, 2019 Auction was up for six hours before it sold too.......so lots of people could have purchased it.... Life can be too hard.....not worth fussing over the deal you didn't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2019 Share #49 Posted January 21, 2019 He actually says he sold it for the original sale price...but not to the original buyer... So, I cancelled the sale and re-sold to a collector or dealer that had some morals and what I felt was a code of ethical behavior. I sold it to him for the original sale price and I felt good about it. And that's why I was asking to clarify...I didn't want someone to walk away reading that and thinking something else had happened as I had to read it a few times to figure out what was going on (and finally figured I'd ask...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 21, 2019 Share #50 Posted January 21, 2019 Your reputation is what stays with you, after the transaction is done. Where no laws are broken, and no one injured, people get to decide for themselves what is right. That includes your forum persona - the value you add or subtract through posts you make. People are generally attentive, and over time, will figure out who is who. Very true! I heard it said: "It takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and 30 seconds to destroy it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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