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VF-13


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#26 doyler

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 01:31 AM

Another image found on line

https://www.collecto...hter-squadron-p

#27 pararaftanr2

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 04:40 AM

Similar to the VF-13 patch Kurt mentioned in his post #24, the image below shows a VF-13 patch consisting of a decal, or possibly silk screened, Hellcat face and crossed .50 caliber bullets superimposed over gold leaf Navy wings (that have flaked off) on a leather background. It was part of a grouping sold on ebay in 2014 and was attributed to VF-13 pilot LT(jg) Francis Simrill. This image was from the seller, the patch is not in my collection.

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  • $_57ytgv.jpg


#28 jerry_k

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 05:52 AM

To get all info in one thread. Here is examples of Kurt decal and Rick decals/patch.

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  • VF-13 Black Cats 07.JPG

Edited by jerry_k, 14 January 2019 - 05:55 AM.


#29 jerry_k

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 05:54 AM

From: http://www.usmilitar...with-3-patches/

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  • VF-13 Black Cats 01.jpg


#30 walika

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 10:39 PM

I have been in business a Long time 39 years and have owned only two originals of the VF-13 like that.I would have paid as a dealer 600.00 just to get my hot big hands on that one.In my opinion it looks Aussie made by the construction.Scotty

 

Great to know. Indeed, Aussie made. Plush wool, deep embroidery, linen backed.

 

This one just on eBay (the subject of this post) is only the second I have ever seen, and I bought. :)

 

 

 

For clarification, none of the examples in my VF-13 post referenced above incorporate a decal for artwork as did some USN/USMC insignia during WWII. (I notice my Type I description did not state it, but it is painted leather.)

 

Type-1 (dark leather, wings 5-1/2" across) painted leather.

Type-2 (embroidered on navy tan wool, wings 5-1/4" across)

Type-3 (painted leather, wings 5-3/4" across) below.

 

As for the eBay patch, it is genuine, Aussie made. (see above). It is impressive, substantially larger than the other varieties.

 



#31 jerry_k

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:45 AM

Hi Rick.

 

Thanks for clarification of your mentioned examples patches. Very precise work if your previous patches are painted vs silk screened. 

 

It is still a little bit mistery for me why this VF-13 patch is Aussie made connected if this squadron never been even close to Australian cost during his cruise. 

 

Regards,

Jerry



#32 dustin

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:24 PM

The question impossed here is a very Good observation and maybe we can get some clarification. Hows does an Australian made patch get ordered and shipped to a carrier based aviation unit that operated in the region north of the Philippines and targets over Iwo Jima and Formosa?

VF-13 was established in November 1943 deploying for combat duty in March 1944-November 1944 aboard the USS Franklin. 

Unlikely squadron insignia was ordered from Australia at the time of their formation half way across the world. It would be more likely after their cruise and sometime before their disestablishment in October 1945, maybe.. 

Is it possible that this patch and many others like it were made in the immediate post war era as novelty pieces? After all this insignia was better well known and distributed in publications such as Patch King did, for example.  

I'm merely injecting a conversation and not questioning the authenticity of it being made in Australia but rather questioning if it was actually intended for the squadron itself and more orientated towards public sale. 



#33 Jeffro

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:11 PM

I still say it's US machine embroidered. Hopefully, when you have it in hand Rick, you are able to better evaluate it. Although it's certainly possible that they were procured during an R&R trip to Australia by someone tasked with the assignment, I'm just not seeing the signs of Aussie embroidery on this one. It'd be really difficult to have exact details of such an intricate design between different examples as well based on the Aussie made patches I've seen. Jeffro

#34 dustin

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

During the six month combat cruise of the USS Franklin with Air Group 13 that comprised of VF-13, the closest they got to any Australian metropolitan area was about 1800-2000 miles.  During combat carrier cruises short births were made for re-supply purposes but these typically only last a couple days between strikes then off to form task groups for further operations, only once or twice depending on attrition rates of those supplies. They did not make an R&R adventure to Australia. 

After their final strikes near the Japanese mainland they steamed for home, back in the states by the end of the year 1944. Though the official disbandment of the squadron was made in October 1945, once they hit the shores of the USA its dismantlement had begun. As often when a combat cruise was over, all members of the air group and squadrons were reassigned attached to other air groups, sent for duty as instructors and the like. After a few months, VF-13 only existed on paper with all of its members attached to new stations. VF-13 would never see combat again. The disestablishment was merely a formality after the war. 

The logistics of an Australian made squadron insignia patch just doesn't fit the bigger picture.   



#35 jerry_k

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 05:19 AM

Hi guys.

 

I made a cleaning my old email box and found some photos from VF-13 LT(jg) Francis Simrill grouping from my old friend collection.

 

I guess this one page show true WW2 VF-13 insignia used by squadron during his cruise.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

Attached Images

  • VF-13 Black Cats 08aaa.jpg
  • VF-13 Black Cats 08.jpg
  • VF-13 Black Cats 08a.jpg


#36 Thor996

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 07:16 AM

Hi guys.

 

I made a cleaning my old email box and found some photos from VF-13 LT(jg) Francis Simrill grouping from my old friend collection.

 

I guess this one page show true WW2 VF-13 insignia used by squadron during his cruise.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

Jerry,

 

Thanks for posting those images from your old email. I have and so has Disney Dave [moderator] been looking for confirmation that this was one of Walt's wartime insignia designs and not a clone or knockoff made during the war by someone other than Walt or his company. I had shown my letterhead to Dave but he couldn't find it in his database and confirm the artist-As some may know, while there were over 1000 different designs made by his company for our troops, sometimes artists within units created designs using his characters - but not officially made by him. I have been searching for definitive proof this was one of his and that book has all the proof I needed to see.

 

dave
 



#37 walika

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 07:33 AM

Hi guys.

 

I made a cleaning my old email box and found some photos from VF-13 LT(jg) Francis Simrill grouping from my old friend collection.

 

I guess this one page show true WW2 VF-13 insignia used by squadron during his cruise.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

Jerry,

 

What a treasure this book is. Thanks for sharing.

 

Rick
 



#38 pararaftanr2

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 08:21 AM

Thanks for the excellant post Jerry. The Disney origins of their insignia was confirmed earlier in post #23 of this thread. As stated in the squadron history below an illustration of the insignia, " The fiery cat's head was drawn for this squadron by the Walt Disney Studios, and the design was conceived and assembled by Lieut. George C. Heinrich, USNR, Squadron Air Combat Intelligence Officer."



#39 Thor996

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:02 AM

Thanks for the excellant post Jerry. The Disney origins of their insignia was confirmed earlier in post #23 of this thread. As stated in the squadron history below an illustration of the insignia, " The fiery cat's head was drawn for this squadron by the Walt Disney Studios, and the design was conceived and assembled by Lieut. George C. Heinrich, USNR, Squadron Air Combat Intelligence Officer."

 

Must have missed that post and can't read on my small screen and don't have fold3 account at this time :) Thanks for transcribing



#40 KASTAUFFER

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 03:17 PM

That book is cool! I havent seen that one before. 

 

Kurt



#41 Airborne-Hunter

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 12:24 PM

I agree the patch shown in the OP appears Australian made. It's a very difficult piece to find. The under bidder on this piece is a member of the forum and he has been looking for this patch for years. If the bid history were still visible it would be obvious there were only two bidders for the last several hundred dollars. 

 

As to origins of the patch...it may be fact the ship never sailed to Australia. But that does not mean patches weren't made there. I'm pretty sure it was the ASMIC trading post and within the last two years that someone presented a squadron patch the author's father had made in India over two different manufacturing runs for a unit based in China. To this extent, one VF-13 member could have gone to Australia and had pieces made. 

 

This unit had many different pieces of insignia made, all are equally difficult to obtain. I am attaching a picture of the squadron pin. This pin comes in two styles, sterling on gold and gold on gold. I have never seen the image, but I have been told a photo exists of this pin in wear on an overseas hat. The last one of these pins to change hands sold for significantly more than this patch. 

Best ABN

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  • VF-13 Pin small.jpg


#42 pararaftanr2

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 05:43 PM

Thanks to Forum member "babaou", aviation author Gregory Pons, some new information on these VF-13 patches has come to light. Greg has obtained a cruise book from VF-13 and has allowed me to share some of the photos here. Just to recap, the original VF-13 was deployed aboard USS Franklin for their combat tour, returning to the US in December 1944, where they were disbanded. A new squadron, also designated VF-13, was re-formed at NAS Alameda in January 1945. During their training period, they bounced around to NAS Fallon, Nevada, then back to California's NAS Livermore. In July 1945, they moved west to NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii. August 1945 found them at NAS Puunene, Hawaii, where they remained beyond VJ-Day until they were disestablished in October 1945. This information comes from the VF-13 war diary, as found on Fold3.com.

 

Greg's cruise book chronicles this second VF-13. It is here we can see photos of the oval-shaped VF-13 patch being worn, both on the chest of flight jackets and as a right shoulder patch on flight suits. 

 

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  • IMG_1718.JPG


#43 pararaftanr2

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 05:46 PM

This photo shows approximately half of the squadron's pilots. Note the oval patches several are wearing. Also, a couple appear to wear a rectangular version of the patch.

 

 

 

 

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  • IMG_1725a.JPG


#44 pararaftanr2

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 05:49 PM

The oval patch worn on the shoulder. You can clearly see the face of the "ferocious cat".

 

 

 

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  • thumbnaila.jpg


#45 pararaftanr2

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 05:56 PM

A closer look.

 

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  • VF-13a.jpg
  • VF-13a patch.jpg


#46 pararaftanr2

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 05:58 PM

You can draw your own conclusions, but to me, this new evidence suggests the oval patch was manufactured in the US, not Australia, as this squadron never made it overseas.



#47 Thor996

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 06:21 PM

You can draw your own conclusions, but to me, this new evidence suggests the oval patch was manufactured in the US, not Australia, as this squadron never made it overseas.

 

That's not true. VF13 served aboard the USS Franklin.

 

https://ussfranklin.org/forum/


Edited by Thor996, 02 October 2019 - 06:23 PM.


#48 pararaftanr2

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 06:29 PM

If you read my post closely, you will see that I stated the original VF-13 did serve aboard USS Franklin, however, this original squadron was disbanded at the end of their tour and return to the US, as was Navy practice at the time, and then reformed, with new personnel and aircraft and went through a training program of  nine months, in the United States, without going oversea.



#49 Thor996

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 06:33 PM

If you read my post closely, you will see that I stated the original VF-13 did serve aboard USS Franklin, however, this original squadron was disbanded at the end of their tour and return to the US, as was Navy practice at the time, and then reformed, with new personnel and aircraft and went through a training program of  nine months, in the United States, without going oversea.

 

;)
 



#50 jerry_k

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 12:32 AM

Thanks Paul for this information. I guess all is more clear now. From what I understood patch is a second tour design as we can see on orgin pic and it did't have any indication with "Aussie" made. Probably standard US made for squadron purposes. 

 

Interesting thing to see a patch on a right sleeve of nylon flight suit.

 

Regards,

Jerry




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