Costa Posted November 30, 2018 Share #1 Posted November 30, 2018 this was on upay and appeared to be a good original. any one here get it?? seller states he got it from the vets family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share #2 Posted November 30, 2018 tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted November 30, 2018 Share #3 Posted November 30, 2018 I posted it before when it was up. I put in $340 and it skyrocketed to over $900 within a few seconds. Someone must've really wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted November 30, 2018 Share #4 Posted November 30, 2018 The price is not surprising. The dog tag alone is worth over $100.00. Now add a helmet ID'd to the guy on the tag and the subgroup of helmet collectors who are really into USMC and you end up with a $1000.00 combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 30, 2018 Share #5 Posted November 30, 2018 not me, it didnt take my fancy, also no mention of it being named anywhere and I didnt see enough wear on the cover for it to be a Used in theatre piece. There may be a name that matches the lid and I hope there is. If not its the sum of parts IMHO - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWII_GI Posted November 30, 2018 Share #6 Posted November 30, 2018 Yeah I really dont know about that one. The shell and cover look too nice compared to the liner. Also without a name in that helmet who knows when the dog tag was attached. -Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USARV72 Posted November 30, 2018 Share #7 Posted November 30, 2018 Can bet he was a big blood doner being “0”....Agree, the wear dosent match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted November 30, 2018 Share #8 Posted November 30, 2018 Can anyone confirm the helmet is named? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted November 30, 2018 don't agree guys, with the tag and no name in the lid. many did not name there lids and that also goes with clothing or what ever. so what do you do?? pass everything up?? I have some lids in the collection that are 100% matched pot and liner with no name and it was used over seas in good shape. is it fake or not worth the money?? even items that are named can be faked. remember the marine lid I got a number of months ago that came with the webbed bag which had the map and all the places the marine was at on it?? the bag had his name but, not the helmet. and it was questioned because the cover had the green side out instead of the tan. so is it a hump or the guy just didn't put his name on it. years ago it didn't matter about a name of partial asn but, now its everything and many good real items are passed up. or would it be better if the seller put the name in it then tell if its real. I say its good and the guy that got it did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 30, 2018 Share #10 Posted November 30, 2018 Can anyone confirm the helmet is named? I believe it is not, someone bought it on the assumption of the tag being original to the helmet. While that is possible, without provenance from the family or it being named this is what you have - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 30, 2018 Share #11 Posted November 30, 2018 don't agree guys, with the tag and no name in the lid. many did not name there lids and that also goes with clothing or what ever. so what do you do?? pass everything up?? I have some lids in the collection that are 100% matched pot and liner with no name and it was used over seas in good shape. is it fake or not worth the money?? even items that are named can be faked. remember the marine lid I got a number of months ago that came with the webbed bag which had the map and all the places the marine was at on it?? the bag had his name but, not the helmet. and it was questioned because the cover had the green side out instead of the tan. so is it a hump or the guy just didn't put his name on it. years ago it didn't matter about a name of partial asn but, now its everything and many good real items are passed up. or would it be better if the seller put the name in it then tell if its real. I say its good and the guy that got it did well. Costa The lid sold for $1200, Being a USMC collector I would want to be looking for something to be named for that money. Even an initial in the webbing would be something. The helmet has very light usage and the cover has little to no wear, so with that in mind the liner either has been stored badly or seen some use on a tropical island with the shape its in. For me the liner has been stored badly, Now paired with that fact you have no rust on the helmet I could see and a good condition first pattern camo cover with light usage, that liner just doesnt fit in with it. The tag could have been added anytime, If someone is happy dropping that kind of money on it due to the dog tag, then you are going to see this happen a lot in the future. The sum of parts here just does not add up, If the helmet comes back with a name and the marine can be positively IDed to that lid and liner then the buyer did extremely well. If not then you literally have the sum of parts, and for 1200 bucks IMHO he overspent by a lot - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 30, 2018 Share #12 Posted November 30, 2018 Photos of the helmet - Its seen very little use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 30, 2018 Share #13 Posted November 30, 2018 Liner thats been stored badly in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted November 30, 2018 I went back to view this lid on upay and the seller had and sold an M-2 para pot earlier this year, no liner just the pot. I looked up his feed back and there were a couple of pictures. I remember the room with that brickwork. its the same guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 30, 2018 Share #15 Posted November 30, 2018 I went back to view this lid on upay and the seller had and sold an M-2 para pot earlier this year, no liner just the pot. I looked up his feed back and there were a couple of pictures. I remember the room with that brickwork. its the same guy. Good or bad seller ? - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Whittaker Posted December 1, 2018 Share #16 Posted December 1, 2018 My question would be who would put a dog tag in there helmet so loose like that? It would make way to much noise while wearing it just dangling there. I feel that someone might have just put it in there to make some extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted December 1, 2018 Share #17 Posted December 1, 2018 The veteran or family member most likely could have put the tag on the helmet for safe keeping, have seen lots of WWI helmets with tag like that.......mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted December 1, 2018 Share #18 Posted December 1, 2018 A lot of speculation, which is understandable. Are there pictures of the inside of the shell? If it rust-matches with the liner, that would be key. The shell has enough wear that the rim is worn through the paint. I disagree with you Dean, I think the wear of the three main components make sense - reserving final judgement based on inside of shell. Price is what somebody is willing to pay. For me, and yes, fellow USMC collector, $1200 is a ton of money for this rig - positively ID’d or not. Now, UNIS-marked cover, different conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted December 1, 2018 Share #19 Posted December 1, 2018 A lot of speculation, which is understandable. Are there pictures of the inside of the shell? If it rust-matches with the liner, that would be key. The shell has enough wear that the rim is worn through the paint. I disagree with you Dean, I think the wear of the three main components make sense - reserving final judgement based on inside of shell. Price is what somebody is willing to pay. For me, and yes, fellow USMC collector, $1200 is a ton of money for this rig - positively IDd or not. Now, UNIS-marked cover, different conversation. Are you looking at the same helmet ? The front rim of the helmet has very very little paint loss, its ok to disagree but all the details and signs are there. I would bet my bottom dollar that liner and helmet are not oroginal to each other based on photo evidence and what is presented. That is my opinion. - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted December 1, 2018 Share #20 Posted December 1, 2018 No need to be rude Dean. I am looking at the pictures in this topic, and did not see it on eBay. There is paint loss around the entire rim, ghost oxidation of a liner chinstrap over the shell, and I think matching wear (again, having not seen the inside of the shell). You clearly know more about it than I do, so I will just say that these things are 70+ years old. There is no telling the journey they have made, from footlocker to garage, etc. As Costa was alluding to, there is no perfect standard for adherence, which dictates original from not. So, we buy what we are comfortable with. By example, a cover could be named, with MCSN, and added to a helmet with matching wear, and we might never know it. Or, more commonly, a loose named liner could go in a different shell. Who knows, maybe the parts got separated when they came home, and his kids used the liner to play in the yard, left it in the barn, etc. Vet passes, parts get reassembled. Story? Speculation? Fantasy? Maybe... Consider using your expert knowledge to write a book on helmet forensics. Let me know when it is published. Thanks. Are you looking at the same helmet ? The front rim of the helmet has very very little paint loss, its ok to disagree but all the details and signs are there. I would bet my bottom dollar that liner and helmet are not oroginal to each other based on photo evidence and what is presented. That is my opinion. - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted December 1, 2018 Share #21 Posted December 1, 2018 No need to be rude Dean. I am looking at the pictures in this topic, and did not see it on eBay. There is paint loss around the entire rim, ghost oxidation of a liner chinstrap over the shell, and I think matching wear (again, having not seen the inside of the shell). You clearly know more about it than I do, so I will just say that these things are 70+ years old. There is no telling the journey they have made, from footlocker to garage, etc. As Costa was alluding to, there is no perfect standard for adherence, which dictates original from not. So, we buy what we are comfortable with. By example, a cover could be named, with MCSN, and added to a helmet with matching wear, and we might never know it. Or, more commonly, a loose named liner could go in a different shell. Who knows, maybe the parts got separated when they came home, and his kids used the liner to play in the yard, left it in the barn, etc. Vet passes, parts get reassembled. Story? Speculation? Fantasy? Maybe... Consider using your expert knowledge to write a book on helmet forensics. Let me know when it is published. Thanks. And this is where the conversation ends Blacksmith with you, Good day squire ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted December 1, 2018 Share #22 Posted December 1, 2018 At this point you have a liner, a fixed bail shell, a helmet cover and a dog tag. Value is sum of parts. If you want to surmise that it's ID'd then good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted December 1, 2018 Share #23 Posted December 1, 2018 Does water stain on top of liner match the interior of steel pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 1, 2018 Share #24 Posted December 1, 2018 Anyone can throw a dog tag on a helmet for a premium. Seems like a lucrative thing to do... buy a nice WWII USMC dog tag for $100, buy a nice helmet set for $500, put em together and wha da ya got? BIBBIDI BOBBIDI BOO.... $1,200 resale That said, anything is possible. It very well could be a legit grouping but without a name on the helmet set, it unfortunately cannot be confirmed. I would suggest that the buyer of this set ask the seller who the family is that he bought it from, call the family up and get there take on the history of the helmet. Have them provide you evidence that their father/grandfather (who is named on the tag) actually wore this helmet. If you can get a photo of him wearing it or a photo of a child playing with it from the family in the 1950s/1960s in their backyard, etc, then you may have enough to feel comfortable with keeping it. Just my take on the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted December 1, 2018 Share #25 Posted December 1, 2018 Good advise Stealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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