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These are the wings that belonged to Marie Michell Robinson as given to me by her brother. The other photo is items recovered from her crash site. All items were returned to next of kin. Your wing looks good to me!!!

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I'm not so sure that I agree here with the assessment that this wing is good. I am VERY concerned about its authenticity. First, I would never want to make a significant financial outlay based on twos, especially when we aren't getting much detail out of them. One thing that I would insist on is a very good view of the hallmark. Second, I would wand a good, straight-on view of both the front and the back.

Now, what I don't like about this wing is the fact that the posts have a "nail head" where the known originals always seem to have the clutch prongs silver soldered into place. I would encourage anyone who might be interested in buying this or any other high dollar price to visit Bob Schwartz' OUTSTANDING WW2Wings website at http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/usaafwasp.shtml before spending your hard earned money.

 

My two cents,

Allan

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Ditto to what Allan said.

 

There are some good threads on this forum about WASP wings. I know its been said before, but it would behoove you to learn the "search" option, Costa... Said with humor and respect, but, still...

 

P

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The photo on the listing of the hallmark is not very clear which makes it look like less distinct letters. Can't say if that is because the letters are less crisply stamped or if its just fuzzy photography.

 

Along with the posts being of the nailhead variety, they also look like they might be more than the standard 1/4" in length and they are mounted closer to the wing tips than on "normal" Josten WASP wings.

 

Its hard to tell from the photos with the rulers what the actual span of this wing is, but in the first photo on the listing it looks like it is about 2-5/8" which is about 1/8" too narrow. There is a similar wing also on Ebay right now that does not show the posts, but it is listed as being only 2-5/8" wide as well. Does anyone have a known JoeW wing that can say what kinds of posts he uses and what their spans are? I would guess maybe around 2-5/8".

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I had a Josten fake WASP wing (I may still have it, but I'll have to look).

 

The thing looked pretty spot on, except--

 

1) It had the nail head posts

2) it was a VERY excellent casting of an original (IMHO--or from a newly made die) that resulted in the wing being just a tad smaller than an original. Obvious when you had an original next to it for comparison.

3) it had that brownish patina. No sign of that silver "frosted" finish that real ones have.

4) the JOSTEN hallmark was VERY close to the original but subtly off from a good one.

5) the small feathers and details in the shoulder were rougher than originals

 

Truly the main issue is that unless you have a good one to compare side by side with a loup, you run the chance of being fooled.

 

I also wonder if these wings aren't reunion pieces that are being sold as original?

 

This wing looks much like my fake. I don't think the fakes were made by He Who Shall Not Be Named. I suspect that they are

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Here is my real one. It was made into a bracelet and is well worn. That is one thing you should notice about real WASP wings, most of these would have been worn for a relatively short period of time between being issued to the ladies and the end of the war. That is why many WASP wings almost look pristine, as they were worn and then put away. I always get a bit worried about wings that show a lot of wear, especially the ones that have all of that silver frosted finish worn off.

 

Some other things should be pointed out. The FAKE Josten hallmark seems to be typically placed to close to the edge of the wing and the location of the posts seem to be slightly off. But since those things are added to the wing by the faker, it may not be a solid "tell". Still, I kind of think the best thing to do is think of ALL WASP wings as being fake and then let them convince you by their own merits.

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pat, I looked at bobs site and compared those to the 1 posted on u-pay. I suspect all of these wasp wings as repro until it is said to be good by a seasoned collector for which im not. what I didn't like were the posts. the groove around each post near the top. I did not buy this wing knowing full well these are very scarce to rear.

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I had no idea the fakes were getting that good. A Joston wing has a slight curve to it as it was made for women. The makers mark is always bottom right at an angle, but what I see on the fake posted is it is too close to the edge and the Joston stamp lettering is not quite right. Start counting feathers. Now that you guys have opened my eyes I see a flaw on the one that started this post. On an original wing on the bottom row of feathers from the shield the feathers turn from curving towards the shield around 7 or 8 feathers out it makes a clear transition curving away from the shield with no neutral feather.

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Here is my real one. It was made into a bracelet and is well worn. That is one thing you should notice about real WASP wings, most of these would have been worn for a relatively short period of time between being issued to the ladies and the end of the war. That is why many WASP wings almost look pristine, as they were worn and then put away. I always get a bit worried about wings that show a lot of wear, especially the ones that have all of that silver frosted finish worn off.

 

Some other things should be pointed out. The FAKE Josten hallmark seems to be typically placed to close to the edge of the wing and the location of the posts seem to be slightly off. But since those things are added to the wing by the faker, it may not be a solid "tell". Still, I kind of think the best thing to do is think of ALL WASP wings as being fake and then let them convince you by their own merits.

Your note of the condition of WASP wings has always been an observation of mine. Marie had two sets of wings. Her brother kept one and sent me the other. The condition of this wing was worse than the one he kept. In the back of my mind I have always wondered if these were the wings she had on when she crashed. I spent months at that crash site looking for her wings and found lots of other items, but not her wings. All of the items recovered showed at least some signs of a post impact fire. Her WASP collar insignia still had the clutch posts on them. Like I said the over all condition of wing has always made me wonder.

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Costa, due to the other observations made I am afraid I made a bad call. I should have pulled my wing out of its box and did a hard look. I was lazy and went off my memory, my bad. Sorry about that. Yours P-59A

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OK, I AM GOING TO PUT UP 3 PICTURES OF THE WASP WINGS I HAVE. I GOT THESE 4-5 YEARS AGO AND WAS TOLD BY A LEADING COLLECTOR THEY WERE GOOD, (HOPEFULLY!) THEY ARE CURVED AND DO NOT HAVE THE NAIL HEAD POSTS. AM I A PRO?? NO.

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So this is my wing with no flash. This came from Marie's brother and a forum member looked at it when the Antiques Road show was in Palm Springs. This is as good as it gets. I attempted to zoom in on your pics, but they are not focused well. Zoom in on mine and tell me if you see the same thing.

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When you look at pfrost's wing or mine you will see the bottom circled area are the same on ours, kind of rounded with no ridges like yours and the back of the shield is uniform in look. Yours has an uneven squashed look in the circled area. I couldn't see the makers mark well enough to say one way or the other, but note pfrost and I are uniform in looks. The other thing I see is the posts on yours look silver in color, mine are not. I assume this is one of the three.

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These are as good as I get on the details. My flash blows too much out. On the clutch post I will take back my incorrect observation. Under different light they do indeed look silver in color.

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If that first pic is of the one that was recently for sale it's a fake and someone paid up for it!

It sure looks that way. The one thing I see in every on line photo of a real wing is the makers mark is the same. That short part of the "N" in the word "sterling" on the right side shows the same in every photo. Not saying every wing looks like that, but every wing I have seen a photo of looks the same.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear P-59A

 

I would love to hear more about your work on her crash site. How you found it, what you did, what you recovered? Was it a previously unknown crash so you were recovering her remains, or was it something that you visited to find artifacts. Not that I am being morbid, but I am fascinated by this and really would love to hear more.

 

Best regards

Patrick

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Dear P-59A

 

I would love to hear more about your work on her crash site. How you found it, what you did, what you recovered? Was it a previously unknown crash so you were recovering her remains, or was it something that you visited to find artifacts. Not that I am being morbid, but I am fascinated by this and really would love to hear more.

 

Best regards

Patrick

Patrick, I posted the short story on this site under "WASP Wings one of the 38" or go to Pat Macha's web site Aircraftwreacks.com for pictures of the crash site etc. I hiked with Pat for 15 years and went to over 140 crash sites in that time frame. So much research has to be done before you set one boot on the ground and look.

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Marie's brother

A WASP'S STORY LIVES ON

Women’s Memorial Honors Marie Robinson’s Memory with Personal Artifacts Exhibit

wasprobinson-w800.gifThe newest special exhibit at the Women’s Memorial features
personal artifacts found at the scene of the crash that
killed WASP Marie Michell Robinson.

Marie Michell Robinson had only been married two brief weeks when she volunteered to take a flight for another Woman Airforce Service Pilot (WASP) who was ill. It would be the last flight Marie would ever make.

Born on May 23rd, 1924, in Detroit, MI, Marie joined the WASP in September 1942 when she was just 19. A requirement for WASP eligibility, she already had her private pilots license when she reported to Avenger Field in Sweetwater, TX, where she graduated March 13, 1944.

First assigned to Love Field, Dallas, TX, she was soon transferred to Victorville Army Air Field, CA. On Oct. 2, 1944, just seven months after graduation, Marie’s roommate was scheduled to co-pilot a B-25D bomber, but was suffering from a toothache. Marie, who jumped at any opportunity to fly, volunteered to take her place. Tragically, the plane crashed over the Mojave Desert, killing Robinson as well as the two male crewmembers on the flight with her.

Following the Army’s recovery of the wreckage and the crew’s remains, Marie’s new husband accompanied her remains home to Michigan and her grief strickened family. Until that time, Marie’s family was unaware that she had eloped, marrying MAJ Hampton Robinson, an Army surgeon she’d met in Dallas.

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“She is not dead/But only flying higher/Higher than she’s flown before…” Marie’s brief service with the WASP was eulogized in the now well-known poem “Celestial Flight,” a piece written by her friend and fellow WASP Elizabeth MacKethan Magid.

For over 60 years, the young WASP’s story ended there, with grief, honor, and a poem. But in 2005, her brother, Roy Michell, received a phone call from a stranger in California who had recovered personal items from the plane’s crash site.

The stranger, David Schurhammer, and two other amateur aviation archeologists, had spent more than a year combing the desert in search of the wreckage, unsure of what they would find. While the Army had removed most of the plane more than six decades earlier, the three miraculously located personal items still lying in the sand from all three crewmembers. Marie’s WASP insignia, diamond ring, nail file, earrings and an identification bracelet given to her by her mother when she joined the WASP, were among the items as well as metal pieces from her watch, which had stopped at 1:40 PM, the time of the crash. All were returned to Marie’s brother, Roy, who generously donated the items to the Women’s Memorial Foundation so that Marie’s story would be a visible part of America’s military history for all time.

Today, the treasured artifacts compliment the FlyGirls of World War II exhibit, which opened in Nov. 2008 and will be on display in the main gallery of the Women’s Memorial until Nov. 2009. The artifacts of WASP Marie Michell Robinson are a physical manifestation of the courage and dedication of all the WASP and the sacrifices they and their loved ones made for their country. To learn more about theFlyGirls of World War IIexhibit and to find links to more WASP information, visit our coverage of the exhibit opening on our Web site.

(January 2009)

DIRECTIONS

 

Roy had everything we found plus items he had including a second WASP wing on display here.

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