29navy Posted November 5, 2018 Share #1 Posted November 5, 2018 What do you all make of this set of LT Commander Medical Dress Epaulets on ebay? https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-US-NAVY-OFFICERS-EPAULETS-1921-Lt-Commander-Medical-Doctor-METAL-BOX/232985478063?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D12%26asc%3D20140905073823%26meid%3D2fc627c9ebe9491dae12095bebe14206%26pid%3D100284%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D232985478063%26itm%3D232985478063&_trksid=p5713.c100284.m3505 Something caught my eye and I realized that the rank marks are on backwards or upside down. The stem should be pointing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted November 5, 2018 Share #2 Posted November 5, 2018 Yeah, somebody put it on the wrong way. It might have been that way for 90 years! You can see the pin holes from the lower grades, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29navy Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted November 5, 2018 Right. Back in the 1913/17 regs, for staff officers, the corps insignia was on the end (or the frog) flanked by the rank insignia. I wasn't thinking that far back. And since they didn't wear them that often. It was never noticed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted November 5, 2018 Share #4 Posted November 5, 2018 Right. Back in the 1913/17 regs, for staff officers, the corps insignia was on the end (or the frog) flanked by the rank insignia. I wasn't thinking that far back. Yep, for all Lieutenants, JGs and ensigns. I made some visual aids on the placement at some point for some reason I forgot. Another thing that's interesting about the corps devices, the stem of the leaves back then seems upside down compared to what we think of for flag shoulder boards today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29navy Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share #5 Posted November 5, 2018 Thanks Justin. I mis-spoke earlier, the placement of the rank and branch mark had to do with rank rather than with whether it was a staff corps officer or not. Three categories, Flag, Capt and commanders, and LT Cmdr and below. Interesting, i hadn't initially noticed, but the medical insignia, (oak leaf with an acorn) does appear mounted upside down on the anchor, but that's not what it calls for in the 1913/17 or 22 Regs. Those regs call for the stem to be down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted November 5, 2018 Share #6 Posted November 5, 2018 Interesting, i hadn't initially noticed, but the medical insignia, (oak leaf with an acorn) does appear mounted upside down on the anchor, but that's not what it calls for in the 1913/17 or 22 Regs. Those regs call for the stem to be down. It was regulation, or at least it wasn't non-regulation! It goes back to the staff corps uniform changes around the end of WW1. When the corps device began to be superimposed on the anchor for the stand-up collar blues and the epaulettes, Uniform Regulations Change No. 25 of Nov. 1918 specified the medical, dental, supply and professors' leaves as "stem toward the stock" of the anchor. You can see the accompanying illustration here: http://uniform-reference.net/images/collar_1918_ch25.png The wording in subsequent regulations was more vague, with the orientation of the devices described in relation to the sleeve stripes. The "old" orientation on flag officer shoulder boards can be seen through WW2. I believe the 1951 Uniform Regulations were the first to illustrate a different orientation for the devices on flag officer shoulder boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29navy Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted November 5, 2018 Great explanation. Keeping track of the changes is a difficult undertaking. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskjl Posted November 5, 2018 Share #8 Posted November 5, 2018 I have a set of USMC with captains bars turned 90 degrees that look like have been that way from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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