Are Gray Back US Army Patches the only Official Issue Patches?

[Teamski]

My Premise:

 

The only official US Army colored SSI produced within the last 5-10 years are Gray Backs. All other SSI produced during the Blues era are commercially produced for collectors or local purchase by units needing patches for special ceremonies or garrison wear.

 

Rationale:

 

1. I have seen only Gray Back insignia in GI Packaging. I have only seen the commercial patches in non marked bagged bundles of 20.

 

2. There seems to be only a single original source of non-Gray Back insignia (Eagles of War). The rest are second tier dealers (on E-Bay for example)

 

3. The quality of non-Graybacks are lacking. The colors are dull and (and sometimes extremely) muddy and they don't have the regulation cables stitched into them (those nice neat rows of threads). These patches look like they are computer stitched to resemble the correct patch. Only the Gray Back SSI retain the high quality that US army SSI traditionally have.

 

 

Conclusion:

 

1. Gray Back patches are preferred patches for the collector as these are the only GI issue SSI produced in the last 5-10 years. I know of none currently being made.

 

2. While not as collectible, the commercial patches should NEVER be considered repros as they have been seen worn on the green service coat immediately prior to their being discontinued (by myself) and seem to be local purchased by commanders for their units.

 

 

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think EOW had the patches produced to have them on hand for units to purchase and to offer them to collectors due to the army discontinuing the production of colored patches.

 

What are your opinions? Here are a couple examples of what I discuss above. Gray Backs are on the left.

 

-Ski

[Teamski]

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[Teamski]

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[Teamski]

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[Teamski]

Note that another trait that you will see with commercially produced patches is the use of glue to secure the pig tail instead of tape.

 

-Ski

[Teamski]

Below are examples of currently available commercially produced SSI. Close inspection will reveal obvious differences in quality between these and a GI issue version (most likely not being produced at least until the Pinks and Greens come out).

 

-Ski

[phillock]

Grey backing, is a woven cloth (paper feel) used by one manufacturer only, they replaced the plastic adhesive with this type of backing. This manufacturer is TIOH certified. Other TIOH manufacturers used the plastic adhesive backing (the norm) then at some stage they still produced but stopped using the plastic adhesive backing , my guess to save costs as the coloured SSI were to be discontinued.

 

The ones you have shown, If TIOH certified, can be used up to fiscal year 2014.If not then they are outsourced from non TIOH certified manufacturer.

 

“AR 670–1 • 31 March 2014

21–16. Shoulder sleeve insignia-current organization a. Authorization. SSI of a design approved by TIOH, are authorized and prescribed for wear on the green service uniform and utility uniforms of the following echelons:”

 

AR 670–1 • 25 May 2017-(Note Green service uniform deleted from text).

19–16. Shoulder sleeve insignia—current organization a. Authorization. SSI of a design approved by TIOH, are authorized for the following echelons:

 

AR 670–1 • 25 May 2017

Note. Units are not authorized to modify their SSI or SSI–FWTS without prior approval from the DCS, G–1. A mirror image SSI–FWTS is considered a modification. In addition, TIOH must approve the design of any modification and authorize its manufacturing in accordance with paragraph 2–3.

 

So dependent on the component: Army, Army Reserve and National Guard and up to 2014(2015), your ones could have been used for the AG uniform during that time period.

 

Another factor is cost’s.

 

Here is from a veteran and collector.

 

Despite the laws, regulations etc... Soldiers don't care and most of the time don't know the difference, as long as it looks good and cost is low. for example, the ACU SSI and now the MC SSI for 1st CAV is about $16 for two on base. Off base they are under $4 each including tax. So, as a Soldier (lower enlisted) especially where do you think most will buy the SSI they need? When in many cases the unit does not supply them or enough of them.

 

The coloured SSI I collect (beyond 2008), mirror the ACU and MC construction in design and weave pattern, meaning they are from a TIOH certified manufacturer.

 

As well as odd ball SSI 1990-2005) variations which I once considered “foreign rubbish” but were collected by various collector friends (ASMIC members) from the time period and were legitimately used due to shortage of supply.

 

Below is SO Aviation Command( Authorized April 2013)

 

Note the weave, pattern and construction is the same as ACU/MC.

 

Phill

[phillock]

The reverse shows typical TIOH spec's.

 

Phill

[phillock]

SOC-AFRICA (authorized Jan 2009).

 

Again using ACU for comparison

 

 

[phillock]

SOC-AFRICA reverse

 

Note the thickness in the coloured SSI is same as the ACU when feeling.

 

Phill

 

 

 

[phillock]

SOC-NORTH (authorized April 2015)

 

The slight difference is the thickness with the added Velcro and the coloured SSI is slightly smaller but the construction, pattern weave are the same.

 

Phill

[phillock]

SOC-NORTH reversed

 

Again authorize use of coloured SSI has been discontinued, however TIOH still produces the exact same specification sheets for use of unit colours for newly activated units.

 

Phill

 

 

[phillock]

Below is 75th Ranger STB (Prov 2006 Activated 2007)

 

Top scroll is fully embroidered Grey backing from 2007 onwards.

 

Unauthorized scroll embroidered on twill, I received in late 2017 which I was told would of been used for Ceremonial and or special events from a current member of The Rangers, purchased from Commando's store can't remember where either North Carolina or Georgia.

 

 

 

Phill

 

 

[phillock]

Ski can you show the reverse of proposed SO Pacific patch.

 

Here is some images.

 

General Keith Alexander (US Cyber Cmd) briefing Sept 2010.

You can make out General McCrystal (ISAF Commander US Forces-A) Pentathlon briefing May 2010.

 

US Army Field Band Nov. 2016

 

My guess is that from 2010 onwards the transition to ASU started to kick in, which is a good starting point on when SSI was slowly discontinued.

 

When the Army authorized the ASU to replace the AG in (Aug)2008, a 6-year transition date to 2014, the Army then added a year (2011) to the life and a wear out date to 2015. Note this would apply to all 3 components, US Army, US Army Reserve and National Guard (Combat, Combat Service, Combat Service Support units authorized SSI).

 

“Possession and use of the blue ASU is now mandatory for all soldiers as of October 1, 2015, when the green class A was retired. As of fall 2010, enlisted soldiers receive the blue service uniform as part of their basic clothing bag issue when they enter the army during initial entry training.”

 

I do have other SSI that I will add to this thread including Beret Flash and ovals.

 

Please add to this thread especially those who have served,would like to get their input.

 

 

Phill

[Teamski]

Really sorry for the late reply. I didn't see the responses. Here is the reverse of the proposed patch. Note that it matches the other EoW patches in construction and the use of rubber glue for the pig tail. Also note that there is an ACU version with velcro made.

 

So, do you agree about the commerical production of patches? I didn't see a yea or ney.

 

-Ski

[phillock]

I think you will find that collecting US SSI is fraught with commercialism that have been in use since the 1940's,the era of mass production from official OQMC/TIOH certified manufacturers to local regional supplier's and Army Navy stores buying up old stock and having replacement patches made for resale for all wars at least since the 1940's and onwards.

 

 

We as collectors have to sort the wheat from the chaff in this new era the use of coloured SSI (2010 onwards). I use the term non TIOH certified, I think each collector will determine how they see them,some would call them repro's other's commercial made for various reasons.

 

The so called "Patch King" made for collectors is the same example in as much as they could be considered as commercial or made for veterans and in a conversation with a well known collector, the fully embroidered PK WWI patches, were made for current serving members (WWII) who served in WWI however time has elapsed to confirm.

One thing is for certain Grey backed were not the only authorized coloured SSI,there were other certified manufacturers who produced into the 2010 period.

 

You also have to look at the timeline of when a unit was activated to know if it was to have an authorized use of a coloured SSI or not.

 

Also factor in transition period.

 

Another point, because they are not TIOH certified, they won't be spec as such, so they will be manufactured to a minimal standard and construction to lower the costs, hence one might expect local embroidery factories would be used.

 

Note mixture of ASU/AGU.

 

311th Signal command Ball,Sept 2012.

 

2/75 May 2012.

 

Phill

[Teamski]

Another example of a commercial patch and an official gray back. I think the advent of commercial patches came about when the US military authorized the private purchase of ABU/ACU uniforms from non-government contractors because of the short supply of uniforms. Some of these uniforms were even made overseas. It would make sense that the production of US Army patches was loosened to allow commercial knock-offs on the uniform.

 

-Ski

[Teamski]

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[vzemke]

How are we defining Official Issue? Do you mean issued from a unit supply room or sold at a AAFES Military Clothing Sales? Both are extremely different circumstances with a totally different supply chain for insignia.

 

The last unit I was in where I was issued full color patches was about 2012-13. I got two from unit supply and they were both NOT gray backs. I also bought two at clothing sales and they were gray backs.

[Teamski]

How are we defining Official Issue? Do you mean issued from a unit supply room or sold at a AAFES Military Clothing Sales? Both are extremely different circumstances with a totally different supply chain for insignia.

 

The last unit I was in where I was issued full color patches was about 2012-13. I got two from unit supply and they were both NOT gray backs. I also bought two at clothing sales and they were gray backs.

 

 

I am defining official issue as having a stock number, ordered through the supply system vs the local commander calling Eagles of War with a government purchase card and ordering 200 of them over the phone or online. I have seen 3rd ID gray backs in their original GI supply issue packaging, so I am basing my premise on that. I do agree that gray backs were not the only issue patches made in the early 2000's as there were plastic backed patches made to the same high standards of a GI patch. I do think that gray back patches became standard at some point though.

 

-Ski